WI Mary I lived longer?

What if Mary I of England lived as long as Elizabeth I did OTL? Lets butterfly away the Uterine cancer and make her healthier. Would she have a better chance of reproducing? How would a longer reign of Mary affect Europe and the World? Please discuss!
 
What if Mary I of England lived as long as Elizabeth I did OTL? Lets butterfly away the Uterine cancer and make her healthier. Would she have a better chance of reproducing? How would a longer reign of Mary affect Europe and the World? Please discuss!

Elizabeth I reigned for 44 years. If Mary rules for that long, she may be able stamp out Protestantism in England. Or she may spark a civil war.
 
I said she would live as long as Elizabeth not reign as long as her. So Mary would die aged 69 in 1586. She would have a 32 year reign.
 
Mike Stearns said:
Elizabeth I reigned for 44 years. If Mary rules for that long, she may be able stamp out Protestantism in England. Or she may spark a civil war.
I highly doubt Mary would rule as long as Elizabeth did. When she took the throne in 1553, Mary was 37. If she were to rule 44 years, that would make her die at 81: it's not impossible, but it was very rare to die that old at the time.

That said, Elizabeth did die at the age of 70. If we make Mary die at 70, she would have died in 1586 and would have ruled 33 years old. It's still plenty of time for Mary to bring England back under Rome's religious lead.

This does still raise the question of Mary's succession though. She seems a bit old to have children though it's still a possibility we have to take into account. Elizabeth will also be influenced by Mary's longer life and it will depend on a lot of factor: Mary could choose to execute Elizabeth for her protestantism (Worst case scenario for Elizabeth) or have her convert to Catholicism and marry and Catholic prince.
 
I highly doubt Mary would rule as long as Elizabeth did. When she took the throne in 1553, Mary was 37. If she were to rule 44 years, that would make her die at 81: it's not impossible, but it was very rare to die that old at the time.

That said, Elizabeth did die at the age of 70. If we make Mary die at 70, she would have died in 1586 and would have ruled 33 years old. It's still plenty of time for Mary to bring England back under Rome's religious lead.

Now if only England had any interest in being brought back under Rome's religious lead.

Mary's burning of nearly three hundred people in four years - compard to 96 in 107 years for her grandfather, father, and half-sister put together - is hardly encouraging English Catholicism.
 
Now if only England had any interest in being brought back under Rome's religious lead.

Mary's burning of nearly three hundred people in four years - compard to 96 in 107 years for her grandfather, father, and half-sister put together - is hardly encouraging English Catholicism.

When Mary ascended the throne most wanted to return to Henry's version of Catholicism.

And compared to her cousin Charles V, who burned 20,000 plus in the Netherlands, Mary looks like a saint.

You can't compare those rulers because they reigned in such different eras and had such different goals.

I think that 33 years would definitely be enough time to restore Catholicism or at the very least to see the position of the Protestants almost completely destroyed. If that's the case thenI bet you Elizabeth would convert to Catholicism, at least publicly. Elizabeth was a realist above all else. She saw that Catholicism was not the popular religion and to support it would heavily weaken her position. The same would be said if Catholicism was the popular Religion. It Catholicism was the popular religion then Elizabeth would embrace the old Religion, no doubt with minor reforms to make the Church more moderate.

The interesting part about Mary living longer is how. Does she never develop cancer? If so then maybe she'll have a child, who would be in his/her late 20s to early 30s when they inherit the throne. Hell without English aid Scotland might remain Catholic. If so then if Mary I remains childless then we might see Mary Queen of Scots become the heiress to England, especially if Francis II dies in schedule.
 
When Mary ascended the throne most wanted to return to Henry's version of Catholicism.

And by the time she was dead OTL, most Englishmen were associating Catholicism with persecution.

And compared to her cousin Charles V, who burned 20,000 plus in the Netherlands, Mary looks like a saint.
Not to the English, which is what matters. Whether others were even worse than her doesn't matter, the point is that people were not responding well to what she was doing.

You can't compare those rulers because they reigned in such different eras and had such different goals.
You can't compare her to her own father or half-sister? What.

I might humor not being able to compare her to her grandfather, but seriously?

But yes, they had different goals. Mary's goal was to push Catholicism whether her subjects liked it or not. The others weren't such fanatics.

I think that 33 years would definitely be enough time to restore Catholicism or at the very least to see the position of the Protestants almost completely destroyed.
Sure, if the people of England were willing, which all signs in 1558 point to "No."
 
When Mary ascended the throne most wanted to return to Henry's version of Catholicism.

IIRC the English Reformation only got more radical under the reign of her half brother Edward. Henry VIII seemed not to have been that radical on those matters.

And compared to her cousin Charles V, who burned 20,000 plus in the Netherlands, Mary looks like a saint.

You can't compare those rulers because they reigned in such different eras and had such different goals.

I think that 33 years would definitely be enough time to restore Catholicism or at the very least to see the position of the Protestants almost completely destroyed. If that's the case thenI bet you Elizabeth would convert to Catholicism, at least publicly. Elizabeth was a realist above all else. She saw that Catholicism was not the popular religion and to support it would heavily weaken her position. The same would be said if Catholicism was the popular Religion. It Catholicism was the popular religion then Elizabeth would embrace the old Religion, no doubt with minor reforms to make the Church more moderate.

The interesting part about Mary living longer is how. Does she never develop cancer? If so then maybe she'll have a child, who would be in his/her late 20s to early 30s when they inherit the throne. Hell without English aid Scotland might remain Catholic. If so then if Mary I remains childless then we might see Mary Queen of Scots become the heiress to England, especially if Francis II dies in schedule.


20000? Are you sure, I've never seen that number. Maybe for the entire Habsburg (Spain, Netherlands, Italian possessions, the Colonies etc.) Empire. To put it into perspective the Infamous Council of Troubles (AKA Council of Blood), instituted by the duke of Alva, 'only' executed a bit less than 1100, but had exiled 11000.

In fact I've seen estimates of between 4000 and 8000 being persecuted for their religious beliefs in the XVII Netherlands, but those who actually ended up being executed were far less.

Some sources from a part of this region showed, that from the 1473* persecuted persons, 'only' 169* ended up being executed.
So 20000 executed only for the XVII Netherlands seems very exaggerated.
(*= source: W. Blockmans (2000), Karel V: keizer van een wereldrijk 1500 - 1558 (translation: Charles V: emperor of a global empire 1500 - 1558))

In a Catholic England, Elisabeth might indeed, think that the throne is worth a mass.

Even a somewhat different Mary might instead of directly wanting to restore the union with Rome want to make the Church in England less radical again too, which would be more like Henry's Church.

Still it is understandable, that Mary with her family background fled in her and her mother's religion. This doesn't mean, that the means she used to reach her goal was the right one.
 
If those figures are correct, that makes Mary's "merely" 300 a lot less "compared to the continent it wasn't much" - which is rather frightening.
 
If those figures are correct, that makes Mary's "merely" 300 a lot less "compared to the continent it wasn't much" - which is rather frightening.

No, doesn't have to be, since the number of persecuted and the number of executions are correlated.

Extrapolating the regional figures (11% of the persecuted ended up being executed) to the whole region (number of persecuted are estimated between 4000 and 8000), gives numbers in a range from 458 to 918, for the XVII Netherlands, which during the reign of Charles V had a population of approximately 2.9 million.

To be sure it's an unpleasant matter, but in part it can be brought back to statistics and numbers, if one wants to compare the harshness of various regimes.
 
No, doesn't have to be, since the number of persecuted and the number of executions are correlated.

Extrapolating the regional figures (11% of the persecuted ended up being executed) to the whole region, gives numbers in a range from 458 to 918.

Well, I haven't studied the Netherlands in this regard, so I'm trusting your sources are accurately reporting the numbers involved, thus the comment on the issue of accuracy.

But that 458-918 makes 300 in Mary's time on the throne - depending on how many were persecuted - very bloody indeed.
 
Well, I haven't studied the Netherlands in this regard, so I'm trusting your sources are accurately reporting the numbers involved, thus the comment on the issue of accuracy.

But that 458-918 makes 300 in Mary's time on the throne - depending on how many were persecuted - very bloody indeed.

As accurate as a combination of an extrapolation (based on accurate numbers )and estimates can be. :)

Still Charles V had a 49 year reign in the XVII Netherlands, whereas Mary only reigned 5 years in England.
In comparison Philip II's persecution was harsher than it was under Charles, but, and this might also be a factor for Mary, may have been related to the fase the Reformation was in.
 
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