WI Mary doesn't execute Lady Jane Grey

bguy

Donor
Something I've been wondering about lately, why was it necessary for Queen Mary to execute Lady Jane Grey after the Wyatt rebellion? As far as I know Lady Jane was not involved in anyway in inciting or supporting the uprising, and it is difficult to see how Jane could possibly have been considered a threat to Mary's rule, seeing as how even when Jane actually was the Queen no one had rallied to her defense against Mary, and now her father-in-law was dead and her father was about to be executed (for actual treasonous acts).

So given that Mary was supposedly a devout Catholic what if she decides to follow the Christian teachings of mercy and not execute Lady Jane?

Would this lead to additional Protestant uprisings against Mary calling for Jane to be restored as Queen? Would it cost Mary the support of Spain? And would Mary's historical reputation be better (no "Bloody Mary") without her having ordered the killing of an innocent teenage girl?

And what would Mary do with Lady Jane if she didn't execute her? I can't really see her just letting Jane go free. Would she keep her in prison indefinitely, make her a lady-in-waiting (as was later done with Jane's sisters), pack her off to a convent somewhere (could that even be done for Protestant women?)

And what would happen to Lady Jane once Mary died. I would assume that Mary still goes with Elizabeth for her successor. Would Elizabeth let Jane live out her life in peace or would she see her as a potential threat that had to be imprisoned or killed?
 

Larrikin

Banned
Lady Jane Grey, whether she was active or not, was a rallying figure for the opposition.

Besides which, the Tudors had a really good example of what happened when you were merciful towards your opponents. It's called Henry VII.

Besides which, murdering anybody who might have the slightest sniff of a claim to the throne was standard operating procedure for the Tudors. Whether outright murder or judicial murder, if there was any possible connection to the throne, they would make sure you were dead.
 
Lady Jane Grey

I remember that Philip of Spain, Mary's husband, insisted on the execution, because he did not feel secure with her (Jane) still alive. Had Jane lived, it would also have caused problems for Elizabeth in my opinion. Who would have succeeded Mary? Jane or Elizabeth?
 

bguy

Donor
I remember that Philip of Spain, Mary's husband, insisted on the execution, because he did not feel secure with her (Jane) still alive. Had Jane lived, it would also have caused problems for Elizabeth in my opinion. Who would have succeeded Mary? Jane or Elizabeth?

The execution still seems rather unnecessary though even by the standards of the age. Why was Philip so afraid of a teenage girl, who was not particularily ambitious or scheming, whose reign as queen collapsed after 9 days due to all of her supporters abandoning her and who no longer had any surviving allies.

As for who would have succeeded Mary if Jane was spared I think it would almost certainly still be Elizabeth. Aside from the obvious blood-link between Elizabeth and Mary and the fact that Jane's previous reign wasn't exactly a brilliant success, Jane was much to openly and strongly Protestant for the devoutly Catholic Mary to want to see as her successor. Nor can I see any real way for Jane to regain the throne without Mary's endorsement. Aside from her not having the necessary ambition, a Lady Jane that is spared execution will probably still be kept on a very short leash by Mary. Jane would know that any politicking at all by her would get her quickly executed, so she would undoubtedly try to stay out of the political arena and just live a quiet life of study and prayer. It is therefore doubtful she would have the necessary allies to later challenge Elizabeth even if she wanted to do so.

And even if Jane manages to charm Mary sufficiently to overlook their religious differences and offer Jane the succession, my understanding is that Jane never particularily wanted to be Queen in the first place. Given how much misery her brief reign as Queen caused her, it is doubtful she would want to return to the throne even if Mary was willing to offer it to her.
 
Lady Jane Grey

I believe that the Earl of Warwick was executed for the same reason. Mentally deficient and politcally insignificant, he was hardly a threat by himself. But the Spanish insisted on his removal before Prince Arthur could marry Catherine of Aragon.
 
Besides which, the Tudors had a really good example of what happened when you were merciful towards your opponents. It's called Henry VII.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. What's your point here? Henry by all accounts was very successful because of his merciful approach.
 
Henry VII was the opposite of merciful. The mercy was when the preceding monarchy made the mistake of not killing him when they could.
 

bguy

Donor
Lady Jane Grey, whether she was active or not, was a rallying figure for the opposition.

Besides which, the Tudors had a really good example of what happened when you were merciful towards your opponents. It's called Henry VII.

Besides which, murdering anybody who might have the slightest sniff of a claim to the throne was standard operating procedure for the Tudors. Whether outright murder or judicial murder, if there was any possible connection to the throne, they would make sure you were dead.

True, but all of those points applied just as strongly when Mary first deposed Lady Jane and Mary still spared Jane's life at that point, so Mary does appear to have been capable of rising above typical Tudor bloodthirstiness. Which in turns make me believe that Mary's eventual decision to kill Jane had less to do with Mary's Tudor pedigree and more with her bowing to the wishes of the Spanish. (Especially since Jane had committed no new offenses against Mary.)

Which in turn makes me wonder
1) Why were the Spanish (or for that matter Gardiner) so insistent that Jane must die? Especially since Jane's sisters and Elizabeth were all allowed to live?
2) Couldn't Mary still resist those demands? Seeing as how she did initially refuse to execute Jane even in the face of Spanish pressure, it seems possible Mary could stick to that decision. It is difficult to believe that the Spanish would throw away their alliance with Mary (and the chance to bring England under Spanish control) just because Mary wouldn't kill Lady Jane?

Which leads back to my original question of what would be the effects if Mary did decide to spare Jane's life.
 
Lady Jane Grey

What happens to Jane's husband Guilford Dudley in this scenario? If Mary decides to spare Jane, does she spare him also?
 
What happens to Jane's husband Guilford Dudley in this scenario? If Mary decides to spare Jane, does she spare him also?

It might suit her to do so. Guildford is a negligible quantity with his father dead, no danger to Mary, and while he lives Jane can't remarry (or offer to remarry) to anyone else
 
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bguy

Donor
It might suit her to do so. Guildford is a negligible quantity with his father dead, no danger to Mary, and while he lives Jane can't remarry (or offer to remarry) to anyone elsse

Perhaps, though if Mary is wanting to spare Jane's life while still mollifying the Spanish, executing Guildford might serve as a compromise. Mary could spin it as 'Jane was just an innocent dupe of the evil Dudley family, so I am only going to punish the real villains'. That might be enough to convince the Spanish that Mary is a strong ruler who can keep order (especially if she also executes Jane's father), and it also does send a very clear message to Jane that Mary is not playing around and will not tolerate even a hint of disloyalty.

The marriage factor is an interesting point though as a practical matter as long as Jane is Mary's prisoner she won't be marrying anyone anyway. It is very likely that even if Mary decides not to have Jane executed, she will still keep Jane imprisoned for the rest of her life (or at least for the rest of Mary's life).

And even if Mary does eventually let Jane out of the Tower, Mary will still effectively control who Jane is allowed to marry (or if she is even allowed to marry at all) as long as there is a suspended death sentence hanging over Jane's head that Mary can reinstate at any time. Jane would know that if she married or even discussed marrying someone without the Queen's complete approval, she could be facing the block. And practically is any man even going to be willing to marry Jane as long as that death sentence is hanging over her. It would be a surefire way to get yourself marked as an enemy of the Queen and facing execution yourself if she didn't approve of your suit.

Which raises another point. Lady Jane does have Tudor blood in her. That makes her a potential valuable asset to Mary for using to form some sort of marriage alliance (or even just to reward some useful ally.) Mary can pretty much force Jane to marry whoever she wants either by direct threats (marry who I want you to or die) or by inducements (marry who I want you to, and I'll pardon you) so would Mary use Jane in this way? If so who might she offer Jane up to? (This whole issue could become especially important if Mary does take a shine to Jane and begins to consider her as a possible successor, though I think that is still very unlikely given the vast religious differences between the two women.)
 
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