WI: Martin Luther, attorney at law

The story goes Luther was walking in a storm, & nearly struck by lightning, swore he'd become a priest, instead of a lawyer.

WI the weather had been better that day? How much difference would it make to the future?

Is a Protestant split from the Catholic Church prevented? Judging by the number of supporters, like Calvin, I'd say not. Given the widespread practise of indulgences, I'd also say somebody's bound to complain loud enough to create some kind of schism in time.

Am I wrong?

And without the Protestant Church, what does history look like? No controversy over Henry VIII's marriages, certainly (even allowing he exists...). No religious wars. (Substitute Crusades?)

Is this just so big, just about anything goes?:eek:
 
My answer for questions like this is always the same: the impact of individuals on the course of history is greatly exaggerated. Without Bismarck, there probably still would have been a Germany. Without George Washington, there would still be a United States. Without Luther, there would still have been a Protestant movement. Indeed, there was already a trend among the Imperial Electors towards bucking the authority of the Habsburgs and the Papacy, and Luther was simply a convenient ally in that regard. Without Luther, another German cleric would have taken on the mantle (or taken it off - sorry, bad church joke).

The Protestant Reformation depended very little on Luther and was a remarkably localized conflict. Individuals, along with princes and kings, were forced to choose between loyalty to the Pope or to the five solae. Many made their choice not based on religion at all. Europe was simply ripe for upheaval at that point.
 
The causes for the reformation are still going to be there, but how these are resolved could be different. But there are local variables on those issues, and not just based on purely ecclesiastical issues but secular ones as well. Denmark is not Sweden is not the empire is not England is not Scotland is not the Swiss etc.

Maybe concilarism, maybe more versions of the early englis church (Catholic but with monarchy as head).
 
The reason the Reformation took off when it did was a combination of the Printing Press and the resultant upsurge of literacy among the increasingly influential bourgeoisie and increasingly powerful kings wishing to deprive the church of its influence and take its wealth for themselves or their kingdoms. Reformers since at least Wycliffe and Hus had been trying to light that bonfire, so to speak, and Luther was the first to be in the right place at the right time but certainly would not have been the last.
 

Dolan

Banned
Fair to say no Lutheran Church. Any nominees for a replacement?
More domination by Calvinist Reformed Church?

Maybe instead of Protestants being separated into many independent Churches, Calvin managed to unite the Dissenting Protestants into one CalvinChurch?
 
Is a Protestant split from the Catholic Church prevented? Judging by the number of supporters, like Calvin, I'd say not. Given the widespread practise of indulgences, I'd also say somebody's bound to complain loud enough to create some kind of schism in time.

Not necessarily; the Church had been full of corruption in previous eras, but managed to revolve this without a schism (cf. Francis of Assisi).

And even if there is a schism, without Luther it could end up looking very different, theologically speaking. E.g., it's quite possible that any split would create something like a Western equivalent to the Eastern Orthodox Church (similar to Catholicism in doctrine, but without the Pope) rather than Protestantism as we know it.
 

Kaze

Banned
Luther as a lawyer successfully sues the Catholic Church starting the Reformation on accident when the verdict goes in his favor.
 
Is a Protestant split from the Catholic Church prevented? Judging by the number of supporters, like Calvin, I'd say not. Given the widespread practise of indulgences, I'd also say somebody's bound to complain loud enough to create some kind of schism in time.

Right, so the reformation is not about indulgences, but several factors.

If we are to talk very general the reformation is a series of factors that reaches a critical point. It was by no point the first time this had
happened, the most resent being
Conciliarism and the
Western Schism, where Conciliarism was still an ongoing factor. At the same time the Renaissance, and especially the
Northern Renaissance was leading to the spread of Humanism. No we also have issues of Church corruption, generally the further or weaker the central authority of the Church was in a region, the more Church corruption was an issue. This not just the overselling of indulgences, especially for personal gain, but Simony, Absenteeism, clergy who were lacking in education, the selling of relics, over veneration of saints, domination of popular religion etc.
To add too these issue there were also secular issues were faith was used as a political weapon. In the empire it was useful as a tool to oppose the increasing power of the emperor, the Danes used it to break Norwegian independence, in Bohemia, Austria and the low countries it got mixed up with peculiar ism and the internal power struggle. In Hungary, the conquest by the Turks was view as divine punishment, and thus fulled reformation. Etc

Lutheranism spread across Germany rapidly, in large part thanks to the role of the printing press. Luther's criticisms of the Church were written in the common vernacular, often supported by drawings for the illiterate, and were easy to understand compared to the Latin the Church used to oppose him. The active use of the hyms also worked as both a teaching tool and helping spread the faith.
Now Luther was not the only person working, so even if he becomes a lawyer (witch does not mean that he will not still end up as a reformere) we still have Zwingli, and the writings of Erasmus. What happens to Calvin, to Melanchthon is more in the air.
 
Zwingli's protests actually began before Luther's (1516). It's not certain how much Luther's ideas influenced the early Reformation in Switzerland. Some kind of Protestant movement is likely to happen TTL but the outcome of it could be significantly different.
 
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Wonder what effect, if any, this would have on the German Peasants' War.
Massive, the Lutheran principle of Divine mandate for rulership is considered as important factor, its more or less based on scripture, so someone else would most likely come up With a similar idea ( and Melanchthon was also arguably the most important when it come Down to theology) so we will see it unlesse the Churce Accepts Conciliarism and we end up With a Erasmian-reformed conciliarian pragmaric sanctioned Catholic Churce. But i will come later, and will have effects.
 
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