WI: Maria of Nassau Has a Son by her Pfalz Husband?

As the title says. @JonasResende had a thread on Eduard, Count Palatine having a son and heir; and @Valena has done a TL where Rupert marries Frances Bard. But I haven't seen any on Maria of Nassau and her Pfalz-Simmern-Kaiserslautern hubby.

Maria married Ludwig Heinrich of Kaiserslautern in 1666 (after she had been offered to all three sons of Charles I apparently). He died 8 years later with no kids. I'm guessing -considering how her sisters sprogged - that the problem was on his end (I would say consanguinity might have also played a role, but considering he and the Great Elector would have had more or less the same ancestors, I don't know if this is a valid argument). Ludwig Heinrich (or his son) would've stood higher in the Pfalz succession than the Neuburg bunch. So the Palatinate would - theoretically - not change religion TTL. But how else would this affect things?
 
The War of Palatinate Succession may still happen TTL, as Louis XIV would tout Lizelotte's claims as superior to her cousin's.
However, this would likely be not Franco-Imperial (at least initial) but Franko-Dutch conflict.
 
The War of Palatinate Succession may still happen TTL, as Louis XIV would tout Lizelotte's claims as superior to her cousin's.
However, this would likely be not Franco-Imperial (at least initial) but Franko-Dutch conflict.

Fair, fair. I'm not sure a birth of Friedrich Ludwig of Pfalz-Kaiserslautern will affect things in France too much. At least at the get-go. But would the WotPS being a Franco-Dutch conflict mean it's smaller than OTL?
 
Yes. Empire may intervene, after all, Electorate Palatine is the member state of HRE, but not with the same zeal as in case of supporting interests of Emperor's brother-in-law.
OTOH, if there is no said brother-in-law enthroned in Palatinate, French appetites can be much smaller.
 
Yes. Empire may intervene, after all, Electorate Palatine is the member state of HRE, but not with the same zeal as in case of supporting interests of Emperor's brother-in-law.
OTOH, if there is no said brother-in-law enthroned in Palatinate, French appetites can be much smaller.

Wonder if it might persuade Louis to not alienate a potential ally then. I mean, when he succeeds, assuming he's born around 1667-1669, Friedrich Ludwig would be between 16-18yo. And if he's got anything like half his cousin in the Netherlands/Brandenburg/Anhalt's military skill, something tells me he's the sort of person (like Carl XI of Sweden) Louis would piss off at France's own risk.
 
Keeping Friedrich Ludwig a French client with some annexations here and there is a smart move, yes.
 
Keeping Friedrich Ludwig a French client with some annexations here and there is a smart move, yes.

Do you think Louis would go so far as to offer Friedrich Ludwig a French bride (either the OTL duchess of Savoy or Mademoiselle de Bourbon?) And would Karl II/Friedrich Ludwig accept it? Or would they insist on a decent Protestant girl (perhaps Anne of York)?
 
The War of Palatinate Succession may still happen TTL, as Louis XIV would tout Lizelotte's claims as superior to her cousin's.
However, this would likely be not Franco-Imperial (at least initial) but Franko-Dutch conflict.
I do not think Louis would be so stupid to go with his OTL stunt as Ludwig Heinrich was a much closer relative than the Neuburg branch.

Do you think Louis would go so far as to offer Friedrich Ludwig a French bride (either the OTL duchess of Savoy or Mademoiselle de Bourbon?) And would Karl II/Friedrich Ludwig accept it? Or would they insist on a decent Protestant girl (perhaps Anne of York)?
Both Mademoiselle de Bourbon and Anne of York would be highly suitable brides for Friedrich
 
Another thing the existence of extra Palatine prince can change is personality of Karl II. With a young man of suitable rank to keep his company, and not just bastard half-siblings, he may become more laid back than he was OTL.
 
Another thing the existence of extra Palatine prince can change is personality of Karl II. With a young man of suitable rank to keep his company, and not just bastard half-siblings, he may become more laid back than he was OTL.

Would he and Friedrich Ludwig be close though? I mean there'd be a 15-16year age gap between them.

I do not think Louis would be so stupid to go with his OTL stunt as Ludwig Heinrich was a much closer relative than the Neuburg branch.


Both Mademoiselle de Bourbon and Anne of York would be highly suitable brides for Friedrich

Fair fair. I wonder if he'd be more successful in having surviving kids with Anne. They're not closely related as Karl II or a son of Prince Rupert, but Friedrich Ludwig's ancestry is pretty Habsburgesque in the last two generations.
 
Would he and Friedrich Ludwig be close though? I mean there'd be a 15-16year age gap between them.
At least more close than with Raugraves with the same or near same age gap. What Karl wanted in OTL from his father would be a responsibility, and acting as Regent for his underage cousin (if Ludwig Heinrich dies on schedule) may be just the needed psychological factor (that is, provided his father wants to delegate such responsibility to Karl).
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
The War of Palatinate Succession may still happen TTL, as Louis XIV would tout Lizelotte's claims as superior to her cousin's.
However, this would likely be not Franco-Imperial (at least initial) but Franko-Dutch conflict.

Considering the United Provinces was in the middle of it's Stadholderless Period I really doubt this.
 
Considering the United Provinces was in the middle of it's Stadholderless Period I really doubt this.
In 1680ies?
Cause I'm talking about OTL Palatinate succession crisis date, and NOT the marriage date of Maria of Nassau (which was in mid-1660ies, indeed).
 
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At least more close than with Raugraves with the same or near same age gap. What Karl wanted in OTL from his father would be a responsibility, and acting as Regent for his underage cousin (if Ludwig Heinrich dies on schedule) may be just the needed psychological factor (that is, provided his father wants to delegate such responsibility to Karl).

This is true. Given the age gap, might Karl II see his cousin as a sort of "surrogate son" of sorts?
 
This is true. Given the age gap, might Karl II see his cousin as a sort of "surrogate son" of sorts?
Which is pretty likely.
I wonder if he'd be more successful in having surviving kids with Anne.
They are related very distantly, unlike the case with Mademoiselle de Bourbon, graddaughter of Edward of Palatinate.
But I agree that the husband descending from the set of cousin matches is not something healthy (especially if father of said husband in OTL abdicated due to poor health).
 
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This is true. Given the age gap, might Karl II see his cousin as a sort of "surrogate son" of sorts?
Most likely and that will guarantee not only Friedrich succession but also his marrying high (Anne Marie of Orleans will still marry in Savoy but France will offer Mademoiselle de Bourbon). Anne of York would be a candidate, like some German (Austria, Bavaria, Brandenburg can offer anyone?) or Scandinavian (Denmark or Sweden) princesses... If butterflies have her born earlier or Friedrich is willing to wait also Mademoiselle de Chartres would be a good match from a political point of view (and a match who would be strongly supported by Karl II)
 
Mlle de Bourbon is also Karl II's grandniece, and she is of age, unlike the underage niece.
Bavarians have to offer the OTL Grand Princess of Tuscany, Violante Beatrice, but she is too young; Brandenburg has some ladies married in 1670ies. Or a weird idea - an earlier Palatine match for Ludwika Karolina Radziwill (b.1667) - she may serve as a surrogate Brandenburg princess, and would be marrying a co-religionist (though the likelihood of her ending up with her OTL first husband is high, Great Elector was desperate to get his third son an income in form of 5 duchies/principalities in GDL).
 
like some German (Austria, Bavaria, Brandenburg can offer anyone?) or Scandinavian (Denmark or Sweden) princesses...

What about one of the ladies who were being considered as a second wifefor Karl II by his dad who wanted the Danish match set aside? ICR who all was up for consideration, but I remember there being a princess of Mecklenburg-Gustrow and a princess of Schwarzburg-something (but most of them were born in the 1660s)
 
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