WI: Marguerite of Anjou Marries Differently

If Ladislaus' birth is butterflied Elizabeth of Luxembourg will marry the heir of Jogaila, Wladyslaw of Varna..as second husband.

Why? She's already 31yo, with two daughters. Menopause started a lot earlier than nowadays (in the 17th century), which means that it's safe to assume that it probably started still earlier than in the 17th (~35yo) in the 15th. Wouldn't it just be simpler to marry her eldest daughter to Wladyslaw of Varna or his brother?
 
A little something I cobbled together from older posts by @Kynan:

Friedrich V, Holy Roman Emperor [as Friedrich III], Archduke of Austria (b.1415, d.1493) m: 1445 Marguerite d'Anjou, Princess of Aragon, Naples, Sicily & Jerusalem (b.1429, d.1482)

- Archduchess Isabella (b. 1449)

- Archduke Christoph of Austria (b.1450, d.1451)

- Archduke Maximilian of Austria (b. 1451)

- Archduchess Katharina of Austria (b. 1452)

- Miscarriage (b.1453)

- Archduke Leopold of Austria (b. 1455)

- Archduchess Kunigunde of Austria (b.1456, d. 1461)

- Miscarriage (b. 1458)

- Archduchess Helene of Austria (b. 1460)

- Archduke Johann of Austria (b. 1465, d. 1467)
Laszlo V, King of Hungary & Bohemia [as Vladislav I], Archduke of Austria (b. 1440, d.1470) m. 1457 Madeleine de France (b. 1443, d. 1495)

- Archduke Karl of Austria, Hereditary Prince of Bohemia (b. 1461)

- Archduke Sigmund of Austria (b. 1463, d. 1472)

- Archduchess Elisabeth of Austria (b. 1464)

- Stillborn Son (b. 1465)

- Archduchess Magdalene of Austria (b. 1467)

I wonder, would we necessarily see a Habsburg-type Cousins' War? I know that Friedrich and Albrecht/Ladislaus were at daggers drawn, but Friedrich is the guy that Pius II said "would conquer the world without moving from his armchair". And the Hereditary Prince of Bohemia and one of Friedrich-Marguerite's daughters (Helena) are close enough in age that I could see them arranging a match between the two branches as a way of outwardly making nice but really just catching their breath before the next round of fighting. Especially if Friedrich's eldest son marries Mary of Burgundy (and she's an only child like OTL), then it's the wealth of Burgundy and Austria (not sure if the empire would get involved) vs. Hungary/Bohemia. Could be fun to see the other rulers of Europe playing the one branch off against the other.
 
Local as in English? Not a chance. As Kellan pointed out, Isabelle d'Armagnac was considered, as was Leonor of Navarre. Either of those will be far better options (although I'm not sure what Isabelle brings to the table? I know she had a marriage with her brother that resulted in 3 or 4 children, OTL, so hopefully she fares somewhat better as queen of England). Leonor and her Ceres-like fertility could likewise be useful - though I fear it might be wasted on Henry VI - a man more a monk than a king.

The marriage negotiations between Archduke Friedrich V (or King Friedrich III of Germany (he was only crowned Holy Roman Emperor in 1452) and Marguerite d'Anjou took place, Kellan merely said that he couldn't find why they faltered. IMHO, probably because the English made a better offer - what with the fact that they were willing to pay into the Angevin treasury, and throw some choice bits of land in to the deal. If I'm René I'd say "screw it" to the German diplomats and happily sign anything the English put in front of me for that.

However, an interesting thing is that OTL, after Juan, Prince de los Asturias (son of the Catholic monarchs) died, the Habsburgs began styling themselves as king/prince of Spain (despite the fact that Juana was not even heiress presumptive yet) through their descent from Leonor of Portugal. Here, with Angevin blood and it's descent from Jolanda of Aragon, this might start if/as soon as TTL Nicolas of Lorraine drops dead. But that's a far way off.

But, I for one, would very much like to see this marriage come off. If only for the sheer shit and giggles that would ensue (Austria claiming Aragon, Lorraine, Naples, Sicily and Jerusalem).


Not to mention Provence, which they can claim via both Aragon and the Anjou.
 
Why? She's already 31yo, with two daughters. Menopause started a lot earlier than nowadays (in the 17th century), which means that it's safe to assume that it probably started still earlier than in the 17th (~35yo) in the 15th. Wouldn't it just be simpler to marry her eldest daughter to Wladyslaw of Varna or his brother?

That was the plan for her to maintain power but it did not prosper due to Ladislaus living...perhaps in my TL I will have her first husband die earlier.
 
I wonder, would we necessarily see a Habsburg-type Cousins' War? I know that Friedrich and Albrecht/Ladislaus were at daggers drawn, but Friedrich is the guy that Pius II said "would conquer the world without moving from his armchair". And the Hereditary Prince of Bohemia and one of Friedrich-Marguerite's daughters (Helena) are close enough in age that I could see them arranging a match between the two branches as a way of outwardly making nice but really just catching their breath before the next round of fighting. Especially if Friedrich's eldest son marries Mary of Burgundy (and she's an only child like OTL), then it's the wealth of Burgundy and Austria (not sure if the empire would get involved) vs. Hungary/Bohemia. Could be fun to see the other rulers of Europe playing the one branch off against the other.

The intermarriage idea just makes me think of Carlos II a LOT earlier (although hopefully, these Habsburgs might marry exogamously(?) as opposed to their OTL Spanish cousins)

Not to mention Provence, which they can claim via both Aragon and the Anjou.

Fair enough. Although since the Anjou ARE claiming Aragon and Friedrich's marriage to Leonor of Portugal (through whom his son/grandson claimed Aragon after Juan, prince of the Asturias' death) is butterflied, wouldn't they only be able to claim it one way?
 
Marguerite, Countess of Nevers
I recently came across an interesting mention of a betrothal predating both royal and imperial prospects for Marguerite: a contract in 28 February 1442 for her to marry Charles of Burgundy, Comte de Nevers and Rethel.

Now admittedly, when I saw Charles of Burgundy I thought it was Charles the Rash (oh the interestingness of such a TL) but it was rather his uncle. I can't find WHY the contract was tossed aside - presumably the idea of an imperial or royal match made it pale in comparison (although the death of Marguerite's brother Louis, marquis de Pont-a-Mousson in Burgundian care may have also had something to do with it). But if things ran as OTL, if Marguerite produced a son, I'd imagine he'd become duke of Burgundy (or at least make an attractive bridegroom for Marie of Burgundy) in due course. What do you guys think?
 
Why? She's already 31yo, with two daughters. Menopause started a lot earlier than nowadays (in the 17th century), which means that it's safe to assume that it probably started still earlier than in the 17th (~35yo) in the 15th. Wouldn't it just be simpler to marry her eldest daughter to Wladyslaw of Varna or his brother?

Early menopause stats should be understood not to be universal, and potentially weirdly skewed. There are accounts throughout history of doctors suggesting intercourse between spouses end to prevent childbirth-related complications happening as the wife gets older, and a poorer diet for the majority of the population not part of the aristocracy. So at 31, as a well fed, probably decently healthy woman of high birth, she probably has at least another 5 years before menopause sets in. Whether, with 2 daughters (both single digits) she chooses to have one of them marry their heir, or whether she feels up to it herself, is dependent on her health. Granted, she did die in 1442, at 33, so she probably wasn't super great health wise (although that itself was probably poison). But it'd be perfectly believable for her to marry again and have further issue.

I recently came across an interesting mention of a betrothal predating both royal and imperial prospects for Marguerite: a contract in 28 February 1442 for her to marry Charles of Burgundy, Comte de Nevers and Rethel.

Now admittedly, when I saw Charles of Burgundy I thought it was Charles the Rash (oh the interestingness of such a TL) but it was rather his uncle. I can't find WHY the contract was tossed aside - presumably the idea of an imperial or royal match made it pale in comparison (although the death of Marguerite's brother Louis, marquis de Pont-a-Mousson in Burgundian care may have also had something to do with it). But if things ran as OTL, if Marguerite produced a son, I'd imagine he'd become duke of Burgundy (or at least make an attractive bridegroom for Marie of Burgundy) in due course. What do you guys think?

This is probably the match that makes the most sense, given the how far the Anjou dynasty had fallen, finances wise. Plus, I'd love to read about her fighting to get her son on the Burgundese Throne.
 
This is probably the match that makes the most sense, given the how far the Anjou dynasty had fallen, finances wise. Plus, I'd love to read about her fighting to get her son on the Burgundese Throne.

I think her having more than one kid is possible - her husband OTL would've probably been better off as a monk. But then again, Charles de Nevers married but had no kids (one bastard, which seems to point to the problem being on the wife's side rather than his). So no reason that he and Marguerite couldn't have a fairly fertile marriage. Bonus points if their daughter winds up married to the king of England (whether Henry VI's TTL son or Edward IV).
 
Early menopause stats should be understood not to be universal, and potentially weirdly skewed. There are accounts throughout history of doctors suggesting intercourse between spouses end to prevent childbirth-related complications happening as the wife gets older, and a poorer diet for the majority of the population not part of the aristocracy. So at 31, as a well fed, probably decently healthy woman of high birth, she probably has at least another 5 years before menopause sets in. Whether, with 2 daughters (both single digits) she chooses to have one of them marry their heir, or whether she feels up to it herself, is dependent on her health. Granted, she did die in 1442, at 33, so she probably wasn't super great health wise (although that itself was probably poison). But it'd be perfectly believable for her to marry again and have further issue.

I was actually going off menopausal dates for royalty - namely Anne of Austria (mother of Louis XIV) and Marguerite de Valois (mother of Carlo Emanuele I of Savoy) - both of whom Antonia Fraser cites in her LXIV bio. But I do hear what you're saying, Marguerite was a first time mom at an age when most of her contemporaries would've been grandmas already. While her niece (and Anne's half-aunt), while Queen Mary Tudor had no such luck. So, I do think that it's harder to say that x-age is a cut-off point. Their ancestor, Johanna of Pfirt, seemingly had her first kids at a pretty advanced age.
 
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