WI Marguerite de Navarre marries Henry VIII of England?

In 1502 OTL Louise de Savoy widow of Charles d' Orleans Comte d' Angouleme tried to marry her daughter Marguerite to prince Henry son of Henry VII but this offer was declined...
WI Henry married Marguerite in 1502? Her brother was the future King Francis I of France... Could this marriage had given a pretext to Henry to invade France or at least strengthen the English claim on the French throne?
 
I'm assuming this all happened after Arthur died?

Well, this takes away Henry's marriage to Katherine of Aragon, which, depending on how much importance you attach to that marriage, could change his character slightly. Also, if he manages to have a male heir, that could avoid the whole "six wives" thing.

IIRC Henry was significantly older than Francis, so he might be able to enforce his claim that way (as the older male sibling... Not too sure about the intricacies of salic law, however :p). However, I'm just not sure that England would be able to actually win a war against France at this time. Even when Spain, the HRE and England declared war on France at the same time in this period, no major gains were made by England (IIRC they captured one town which they then sold back, anyway).
 
I would imagine the more lasting effect vis-a-vis English conquests in France would be to involve England in the French Wars of Religion (1562-1598). I don't know enough about the period to speculate, but there's a great amount of possibility, particularly given Mary de Guise OTL intriuges in Scotland. The Second Hundred Years War?
 
Well, OTL Henry VIII DID war with France (still under Louis XII, I believe) in alliance with his father in law, Ferdinand of Aragon, and also Maximillian of Hapsburg. He captured Touraine and kept it for a time, but it was a net drain to hold. Eventually it was returned at the famous meeting of the Field of the Cloth of Gold.

Henry personally despised the flippant Francis, whom he met only the once; but his personal relations with the Emperor Charles were little better.

Anyway, if you're trying to turn Henry VIII into a latter-day Henry V, then no one would support you more strongly than old 'enry himself. But England is just emerging from a historic nadir as a military and geopolitical power. The losses in France from Orleans to Bordeaux, together with the War of the Roses, have drained the island kingdom; French cannon has trumped the Welsh longbow; and regardless, France has 4 times the population of England.

It is simply too late a POD to see England achieve her continental aims.
 
Would it be possible for Henry VIII to court some French nobles and start a sort of Civil War?

Also, what does his lack of marriage to Katherine of Aragon do with the alliance with Spain? Nothing?

If England still becomes Protestant, what does that say for it getting involved with the French Religion Wars?
 
Salic laws said that women cannot rule, nor pass any right to the crown, in France.

And even for a fief, a son would always inherit before a son-in-law. Thjat was common law, not salic one. So no 'older sibling'

Also, Francis had a son and his line wasn't threatened before the third generation
 
Edward III got his claim through a woman (Isabella of France Consort of Edward II)
Why not Henry VIII (or his eventual offspring by Marguerite) use his wife to strengthen the English claim to the French throne after the extinction of the Valois line...
 
This is an interesting one. Something is lurking in the back of my mind, but I need to check a few things before I can answer it sensibly...

Obvious possibilities include if this ATL wife gave him a living son there would be no break with Rome, and whether succession to Navarre is affected in any way (it is after all a separate kingdom) ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Following the extinction of the Valois line Henry's descendants by Marguerite would have had stronger claim in the French throne... Since the old Plantagenet claim would have been revived by Marguerite's descendants...
 
Edward III got his claim through a woman (Isabella of France Consort of Edward II)

The only problem is that, if the salic law is applied, none of the english kings has any claim, and if it isn't, their claim is second to the Burgundy one, as the heirs of the King's daughter have priority over the heirs of the King's sister.

In any case, the english kings had no legal claim to the crown of France ( beyond right of conquest.... nearly )
 
The only problem is that, if the salic law is applied, none of the english kings has any claim, and if it isn't, their claim is second to the Burgundy one, as the heirs of the King's daughter have priority over the heirs of the King's sister.

In any case, the english kings had no legal claim to the crown of France ( beyond right of conquest.... nearly )


By marrying Marguerite to Henry VIII and supposedly they have a healthy son the old Plantagenet claim is revived and renewed through her... The Tudor's descendants would have had the upper hand in the succesion conflict following the extinction of the Valois line...
 
By marrying Marguerite to Henry VIII and supposedly they have a healthy son the old Plantagenet claim is revived and renewed through her... The Tudor's descendants would have had the upper hand in the succesion conflict following the extinction of the Valois line...

You don't get 'an upper hand' unless anyone gives it to you - if nobody in France is going to support the King of England, where is his advantage even if he claims a senior bloodline ?

Despite being Calvinist, Henri IV became French king BECAUSE he was the male-to-male descendant and France had NEVER gone through the female line; that's why in the French Revolution Louis XVI was referred to as 'Louis Capet' because he was the direct male-to-male descendant of the first Capetian

Best Regards
Gre Wolf
 
By marrying Marguerite to Henry VIII and supposedly they have a healthy son the old Plantagenet claim is revived and renewed through her... The Tudor's descendants would have had the upper hand in the succesion conflict following the extinction of the Valois line...

In a word, no.

The english claim came through Isabelle, who was daughter of Phillippe IV.

However, after Phillippe IV came Louis X, who also had a daughter, Jeanne II of Navarre.

If you disregard the salic law ( ie, if you admit that women can transmit rights to the crown of france ), it is her line which is senior; and she has 8 children, so the english claim is quite far if you follow the rule of law ( and not of arms ).
 
I think that the Tudors would be more than willing to embrace this French claim as quite legitimate. Iffy is a generous term for their own claim to the English throne. If you have this (relatively) strong claim to the French throne, and Henry VIII has a son who isn't sick, then I think that once the French Wars of Religion start, Henry VIII's son could very well position himself as the Hugenot candidate for French King.
 
I think that the Tudors would be more than willing to embrace this French claim as quite legitimate. Iffy is a generous term for their own claim to the English throne. If you have this (relatively) strong claim to the French throne, and Henry VIII has a son who isn't sick, then I think that once the French Wars of Religion start, Henry VIII's son could very well position himself as the Hugenot candidate for French King.


But if u have Henry VIII married to Marguerite and have a healthy son u avoid the whole 6 wives issue and no breach with Rome happens... England remains Catholic in this scenario...
 
Well . . . hmmmm . . . well, when Henry VIII's son marries a female of the House of Guise, he gains the ultra-Catholics support as a candidate for the French throne. With their help he is able to place his own heir, Henry, on the French throne, as Henry IV. Turned that on its head didn't I?
 
Well . . . hmmmm . . . well, when Henry VIII's son marries a female of the House of Guise, he gains the ultra-Catholics support as a candidate for the French throne. With their help he is able to place his own heir, Henry, on the French throne, as Henry IV. Turned that on its head didn't I?


I was thinking of that last night... could this lead to another Hundred years war and a new Joan of Ark?
 
However, after Phillippe IV came Louis X, who also had a daughter, Jeanne II of Navarre.

If you disregard the salic law ( ie, if you admit that women can transmit rights to the crown of france ), it is her line which is senior; and she has 8 children, so the english claim is quite far if you follow the rule of law ( and not of arms ).

One of the ironies is that Henry IV was the most senior heir of Jeanne II. Even though Henry based his claims on being the direct descendent of Louis IX, he was also the direct descendent of Jeanne, who should've become queen of France, but that didn't matter once they instituted the salic law that said women couldn't inherit the throne or transmit claims through them. I feel sorry for poor Jeanne, cheated out of the throne:(.
 
One of the ironies is that Henry IV was the most senior heir of Jeanne II. .

Henry is the senior heir of Jeanne only if you apply male primogeniture, IIRC.

Henry came from the line of Charles II of Navarre.

However, Jeanne had a daughter before Charles : Marie de Navarre, who wed Pierre IV of Aragon. This wedding produced 4 children, of which only two daughters survived long enough to have further issues.

AFAIK, the lines issued from Marie were not extinct by the time Henry of Navarre came to the throne of France.

Edit : and again, Charles had a daughter before a son, si if male primogeniture isn't taken into account, the line of Henry isn't even the senior one for Navarre.

Now, the question is : without Salic laws, is male primogenture applied consistently?
 
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