WI: Margarethe of Austria, Queen of Hungary?

[Kellan Sullivan]

@Jan Olbracht's post in my Charles VIII thread made me think about this. What if Margarethe of Austria winds up as queen of Hungary instead of duchess of Savoy. Either because Filiberto II is already married elsewhere or because Wladyslaw Bene decides to annul his marriage to Beatrice of Naples earlier.

In most threads I've seen it pointed out that if Maximilian had a second daughter, said girl would wind up in Budapest or Krakow. So, let's assume that Maximilian has an unmarried/widowed daughter in his custody (Hell, he might not even need that, considering how Fernando merrily offered the widowed Margarethe around (to the king of Scots, among others), the idea MIGHT even spring from Spain rather than Austria. Why? Beatrice of Naples' annulment would be a loss of an ally to Fernando (for all that it'd be worth), Hungary isn't important enough to waste one of his own daughters on, so he'll likely offer his niece (the widowed queen of Naples) and his widowed daughter-in-law.
Throw in Maximilian's support behind this (he and Fernando might not like one another, but I could see him definitely preferring his daughter as queen to Fernando's niece), and I could think that ANYONE the French can offer (if Charles VIII living a bit longer happens, he wouldn't have an interest in Hungary so Anne de Foix likely winds up as comtesse de Longueville) is blown out of the water by an emperor's daughter.

For the sake of the POD, lets assume she WASN'T incapable of having further kids after her daughter with Juan, and is able to (and does) have kids with Wlad (she maybe manages to make her more-or-less OTL lifespan). How does this change things?

@isabella @Jan Olbracht @krieger

 

[Old1812]

Maybe Margaret becomes Jan Corvinus' bride to cement the detente between the Habsburgs and Hunyadi Hungary?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Maximilian actually offered Margaret to Vladislaus, but at the same time made impossible demands (he wanted Vladislaus to name him viceroy of Hungary and practically ceede him Hungarian throne). So you need Max to be more reasonable here for it to happen.

 

[krieger]

For the sake of the POD, lets assume she WASN'T incapable of having further kids after her daughter with Juan, and is able to (and does) have kids with Wlad (she maybe manages to make her more-or-less OTL lifespan). How does this change things?

Vladislaus II is manipulated by politically savvy wife, maybe his rule would less of a disaster.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Maybe Margaret becomes Jan Corvinus' bride to cement the detente between the Habsburgs and Hunyadi Hungary?

Daughter of Holy Roman Emperor would never marry Matthias' bastard. No way.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Maximilian actually offered Margaret to Vladislaus, but at the same time made impossible demands (he wanted Vladislaus to name him viceroy of Hungary and practically ceede him Hungarian throne). So you need Max to be more reasonable here for it to happen.

Well, if Charles VIII lives longer, maybe causing trouble in Italy, that Max needs to "sort out, yesterday", could be a reason, no?

Vladislaus II is manipulated by politically savvy wife, maybe his rule would less of a disaster.

This is what I was thinking. Gretl proved herself rather capable of dealing with the factious Netherlands (and then trained her successor, Mary of Austria, to be similarly adroit. Mary in turn educated Dorothea and Christine of Denmark in like fashion), so her in Hungary would be interesting to say the least.

Daughter of Holy Roman Emperor would never marry Matthias' bastard. No way.

Agreed

 

[krieger]

This is what I was thinking. Gretl proved herself rather capable of dealing with the factious Netherlands (and then trained her successor, Mary of Austria, to be similarly adroit. Mary in turn educated Dorothea and Christine of Denmark in like fashion), so her in Hungary would be interesting to say the least.

Definitely, maybe she'd deal with magnates and educate her son (if she happens to have any) properly.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Definitely, maybe she'd deal with magnates and educate her son (if she happens to have any) properly.

I pity TTL Karl V being deprived of her taking charge of his education, but you win some, you lose some, I guess

 

[Jan Olbracht]

I pity TTL Karl V being deprived of her taking charge of his education, but you win some, you lose some, I guess

Still, Karl is lucky that full reverse does not happen and he is not raised by Georg Hohenzollern

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Still, Karl is lucky that full reverse does not happen and he is not raised by Georg Hohenzollern

No. Just by a man called a hyaena by Margarethe herself, the Sieur de Chievres.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

No. Just by a man called a hyaena by Margarethe herself, the Sieur de Chievres.

I still doubt he'd be worse than Georg. Meanwhile without Georg serving as guardian of his young cousin Hohenzollerns would not rise to such position in Hungary like IOTL. And if Jagiellon succession in Hungary looks more secure then Sigismund the Old does not need such close alliance with Zapolyas, which also could have interesting effects.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Wonder who Max will name as governor of the Low Countries TTL (should Philippe le Bel still die) and would that person also be the guardian of the future Karl V?

 

[Old1812]

Does anyone know about Margaret's child-bearing capabilities? There was her stillbirth with Juan of Asturias, and her marriage with Philibert of Savoy was childless as well.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Does anyone know about Margaret's child-bearing capabilities? There was her stillbirth with Juan of Asturias, and her marriage with Philibert of Savoy was childless as well.

OP decided, that for TTL purpose everything is fine with Margarethe's fertility.

Meanwhile, is Philibert II still married to Yolande Louise ITTL?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Meanwhile, is Philibert II still married to Yolande Louise ITTL?

Undecided if she's still alive or he simply married elsewhere (Fernando's niece, the dowager queen of Naples, perhaps? If said lady is willing to take a step down in status?) But I figure Maximilian would probably take a king over a duke for his daughter (if he had the option)?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

I'm seeing Sigismund the Old sticking with his originall plan and marrying Catherine of Mecklenburg ITTL as he does not need to strenghten Zapolya fraction.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I'm seeing Sigismund the Old sticking with his originall plan and marrying Catherine of Mecklenburg ITTL as he does not need to strenghten Zapolya fraction.

Could be interesting if both Siggie and Philippe of Burgundy have sons and Margarethe a daughter around about the same time, no?

Also, is it completely ASB for Gretl and Vlad to have MORE than two kids? I read somewhere he's theorizdd to have had a low sperm count (similar to his nephew Sigmund Augustus).

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Also, is it completely ASB for Gretl and Vlad to have MORE than two kids? I read somewhere he's theorizdd to have had a low sperm count (similar to his nephew Sigmund Augustus).

Vladislaus was married only for 4 years and never had any mistress before and after Anne de Foix (that makes him complete opposite of Sigismund Augustus) so we can't confirm that.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Vladislaus was married only for 4 years and never had any mistress before and after Anne de Foix (that makes him complete opposite of Sigismund Augustus) so we can't confirm that.

So, in theory, nothing stopping him from having more than two kids? Or only one son?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

So, in theory, nothing stopping him from having more than two kids? Or only one son?

Nothing IMHO. Just look at his grandfather-Jogaila has first child with Hedwig after 13 years of marriage (yes, she was just 12 when they married, so you should not count first few years, but still, she was 25 yo when Elżbieta Bonifacja was born, so quite old for first kid by stardards of the time), then with Anna of Cili he had just one daughter, born after 7 years of marriage. And then what? 3 sons with Zofia Holszańska born within 3 years. If Jogaila died before his fourth marriage we'd think about him like we think about rex bene in that regard.