WI: Manzikert Victory. Seljuk Aftermath?

Yes, it's a question oft repeated here, what would happen if the ERE won manzikert. My question however is, how do the Seljuks fare in the aftermath?
Do they still go after the Fatimids as in OTL? (Seljuk harassment of pilgrims were a large contributer to the 1st Crusade) Or does this lead to the Abbasids trying to gather support from the other beys?

I imagine Romanos Digoenes would be quite pleased to keep his two largest neighbours at each others throats while he reforms the army.
 
How significant a defeat are we talking about?

If Alp Arslan is forced to withdraw in something in the nature of good order, that's one thing, if (very unlikely but not necessarily impossible) his forces are broken apart like the Byzantine army was OTL* - that's another.


He's in a tough spot in the former - Byzantium hovering over his flank is why he fought it in the first place - but more in regards to advancing on the Fatamids than holding his own.

The latter is a disaster.

Note that being captured in and of itself may not mean a disaster for his position - Alp Arslan does not have enemies at home the way Romanus IV did.


* Yes, I know that Manzikert wasn't that costly directly, but as far as Romanus was concerned, his army was lost pretty decisively.
 
Yes, it's a question oft repeated here, what would happen if the ERE won manzikert. My question however is, how do the Seljuks fare in the aftermath?
It depends how much they are defeated : if Romanos IV capture Alp Arlsan and kill him...Things are going to be ugly for Seljuks : at best factional infighting, possibly an huge civil war.

If Turks are defeated but not crushed, you won't have much change outside Anatolia : Byzzies still control eastern portion but would have to repel regular raids if they don't take back Armenia that was the gate to Anatolia.

Do they still go after the Fatimids as in OTL? (Seljuk harassment of pilgrims were a large contributer to the 1st Crusade)

1) Seljuks basing their power on being defender of Islamic Orthodoxy, they would be quite forced to have at the very least a very vocal opposition.

2) Not really. The harassment of pilgrims is more due to the Bedouin raids on pilgrimages (that began to be guarded) that were totally outside Seljuk control. Admittedly it was one of the consequences of the Seljuk invasions, that shattered balance of power in the region.

Or does this lead to the Abbasids trying to gather support from the other beys?
It depend of the outcome of Manzikert : if a Civil War is waged, Abbasids could even try to get back power for themselves eventually, even if they would be still the tool of Seljuk legitimacy and such, heavily disputed.
I doubt they would have the means of their ambition, tough.

I imagine Romanos Digoenes would be quite pleased to keep his two largest neighbours at each others throats while he reforms the army.
OTL, Fatimids were allies of Byzantines, so you could eventually see a coincidental operation in Syria-Palestine that would have been possible as the civil war following Manzikert would have been likely butterflied.
 
Alp Arslan is captured, paraded (and possibly killed). I'm basing that off Romanos' supposed response to Alp Arslan OTL.
 
Okay, then worse case scenario.

Possible civil war in Seljuk dominion, not immediatly but happening sooner or later : a clear winner would likely emerges, but controlling only parts of former Seljuk Empire (much like OTL in the 90's).
If not, at least huge factional infighting that weaken sultan's power.
In any case, it's most likely that Malik Shah would be the winner, having both skills and legitimacy.

The whole Middle-East became less stable : Fatimids would search to expand (mostly in Syria and Arabia), Byzantines likely takes back Armenia and secure Anatolian access, and Muslims overlords wannabe playing "holier-than-thou" game.

"Interestingly", it would make the pilgrims' safety more jeopardized.

So, basically, Middle-East could becomes what it was 20 years later, except with stronger Byzzies.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
The Byzies would be able to continue to pretend that they are strong while they suffer from mass corruption and ineptitude. GAME. SET AND MATCH.
 
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