In 1521, Ferdinand Magellan and his surviving men arrived in what would later be called the Philippines. There, he befriended a local ruler named Humabon, who was the Raja of Cebu. Humabon, his primary wife, and many of his subjects agreed to convert to Christianity. When Humabon ordered the nearby chiefs to follow his lead, one of them, a datu named Lapulapu (also rendered as Lapu Lapu and Lapu-Lapu), who ruled part of the island of Mactan, refused. Since relations between Humabon and Lapulapu were already on the rocks, Humabon goaded his new ally into trying to get rid of the thorn in his side. Things didn't go according to plan: Lapulapu decisively won the Battle of Mactan, and Magellan was overwhelemed and killed.

But what if Magellan and his native allies had won?
 
Well much earlier colonization and they can possibly control Mindanao more. With much earlier colonization, there is a slightly higher chance that PI would be independent at the verge of Latin American independence movements. Maybe indepedent at 1820s.
 
Well much earlier colonization and they can possibly control Mindanao more. With much earlier colonization, there is a slightly higher chance that PI would be independent at the verge of Latin American independence movements. Maybe indepedent at 1820s.
That was the height of the Bruneian Empire and the politics there at that time were different.
 
That was the height of the Bruneian Empire and the politics there at that time were different.
The spanish already have a foothold in cebu and they have modern weapons compared to that. And with the foothold in cebu, they can just start doing divide and conquer like wat they did in OTL
 
The spanish already have a foothold in cebu and they have modern weapons compared to that. And with the foothold in cebu, they can just start doing divide and conquer like wat they did in OTL
The politics at that time was different and since Lapu Lapu has connections with the Bruneians, the Brunieans might be more prepared against the Spanish.
 
The politics at that time was different and since Lapu Lapu has connections with the Bruneians, the Brunieans might be more prepared against the Spanish.
The spanish already had a loyal ally, and if they fail, they can simply send more troops to win the war. Spanish ships have the firepower to wreck havoc at Bruneian coast.
you see the spanish Galleons they can wreck the bruneian navy that barely even has cannons
1613899591553.png

Compare that to the strenght of the Bruneians, any invasion fleet of Bruneians would probably get sunk by the spanish and lapu lapu's connections to brunei. how can a minor chief from Cebu have an effect Bruneian politics
 
The spanish already had a loyal ally, and if they fail, they can simply send more troops to win the war. Spanish ships have the firepower to wreck havoc at Bruneian coast.
you see the spanish Galleons they can wreck the bruneian navy that barely even has cannons View attachment 627219
Compare that to the strenght of the Bruneians, any invasion fleet of Bruneians would probably get sunk by the spanish and lapu lapu's connections to brunei. how can a minor chief from Cebu have an effect Bruneian politics

Let's just say that the circumstances lined up for them at OTL, it is likely that the Spanish will get expelled by the Ming and Bruneians in the end.
 
Let's just say that the circumstances lined up for them at OTL, it is likely that the Spanish will get expelled by the Ming and Bruneians in the end.
Why would they get expelled by Ming, the spanish sent silver to china for it's lucrative Manila Galleon, and The Mutual Benefit of Ming And Spain to that trade, why would a falling Sick empire refuse trade that would be beneficial for them. It is the 16th century in this TL the height of the spanish empire. Ming wont probobly bother because they are dying and it is the start of Ming's downfall.
 
Why would they get expelled by Ming, the spanish sent silver to china for it's lucrative Manila Galleon, and The Mutual Benefit of Ming And Spain to that trade, why would a falling Sick empire refuse trade that would be beneficial for them. It is the 16th century in this TL the height of the spanish empire. Ming wont probobly bother because they are dying and it is the start of Ming's downfall.


It is because the Bruneians are Chinese Vassals.
 
It is because the Bruneians are Chinese Vassals.
Look, they just suffered from a coup attmept and they barely won the war against Portugal. They mightve won it but the portugal is outnumbered Chinese ships are called junks and they are barely armed with much firepower they have a casualty rate of 2 to every one european. Europeans have the quality, ships, and qing is suffering from hyperinflation
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Look Brunei is no longer a tributary of MIng or Vassal if you call it when the spanish arrived and Brunei only modernized their army when the spanish attacked mindanao. They barely matched the firepower and quality of the european ships, I believe Spain's just gonna give Ming some money if they will intervene. Spain has unlimited silver from the Americas.
 
Look, they just suffered from a coup attmept and they barely won the war against Portugal. They mightve won it but the portugal is outnumbered Chinese ships are called junks and they are barely armed with much firepower they have a casualty rate of 2 to every one european. Europeans have the quality, ships, and qing is suffering from hyperinflationView attachment 627273
Look Brunei is no longer a tributary of MIng or Vassal if you call it when the spanish arrived and Brunei only modernized their army when the spanish attacked mindanao. They barely matched the firepower and quality of the european ships, I believe Spain's just gonna give Ming some money if they will intervene. Spain has unlimited silver from the Americas.
Even if they win in Mactan, they might still be killed by the Bruneians.
 
How, do you have any proof that they can be beaten badly by bruneians. Just tell me why would brunei intervene just because of a little noble in Mactan getting their politics
What I said earlier is that the situation then is different from 1570, since it was Lakandula who made the conquest of Luzon even possible.
 
What I said earlier is that the situation then is different from 1570, since it was Lakandula who made the conquest of Luzon even possible.
Just compare the spanish and Brunei. The spanish has unlimited money due to the silver mines in South America. Compare that to the Bruneian treasury that probobly cant fund a long war
 
Just compare the spanish and Brunei. The spanish has unlimited money due to the silver mines in South America. Compare that to the Bruneian treasury that probobly cant fund a long war
It is different because they are a fellow Eurasian population and they can kick the Spanish out, they were just lucky IOTL because the circumstances lined up to them and it is only Lakandula who IOTL made the conquest of Luzon possible.
 
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It is different because they are a fellow Eurasian population and they can kick the Spanish out, they were just lucky IOTL because the circumstances lined up to them and it is only Lakandula who IOTL made the conquest of Luzon possible.
Did you read Philipine history, THe spanish Invaded the whole archipelago except Mindanao inland until the late 18th century, it seems you are underestimating the power of the whole spanish empire. And they didnt use luck to win, they use Divide and conquer. It seems that you like comparing the strenght of Brunei to a strong Nation like Ming china. The spanish almost beat the crap of Brunei IOTL the only problem is they just lacked the troops and Spain can send lots of troops to beat up Brunei. ANd remember Bruneian Empire is made of many Tributaries not officialy part of the Empire, Spain can just secretly negotiate with them that will lead to their downfall
 
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Did you read Philipine history, THe spanish Invaded the whole archipelago except Mindanao inland until the late 18th century, it seems you are underestimating the power of the whole spanish empire. And they didnt use luck to win, they use Divide and conquer. It seems that you like comparing the strenght of Brunei to a strong Nation like Ming china. The spanish almost beat the crap of Brunei IOTL the only problem is they just lacked the troops and Spain can send lots of troops to beat up Brunei. ANd remember Bruneian Empire is made of many Tributaries not officialy part of the Empire, Spain can just secretly negotiate with them that will lead to their downfall
The only reason why Brunei fell is because of Lakandula, since during the 1520s Brunei still had its vassals loyalty, and second, once they resisted and win against the Spanish the Portuguese would ally with Brunei since Brunei is under the Portuguese sphere of influence.
 
The only reason why Brunei fell is because of Lakandula, since during the 1520s Brunei still had its vassals loyalty, and second, once they resisted and win against the Spanish the Portuguese would ally with Brunei since Brunei is under the Portuguese sphere of influence.
How can you be so sure that his vassals would stay loyal to Brunei and not switched sides. And the only reason why spain didnt invade brunei completely is because many of its troops got sick, If instead they sent more troops as reinforcents and win the war.
 
How can you be so sure that his vassals would stay loyal to Brunei and not switched sides. And the only reason why spain didnt invade brunei completely is because many of its troops got sick, If instead they sent more troops as reinforcents and win the war.
Spain tried to conquer Brunei due to a succession issue which at that time did not exist.
 
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