WI M3 Lee was the main allied tank?

the M4, which although fixing the sponson, rivets and off-road capability, was still 9' tall, which, okay, was better than the 10'3" of the Lee, but it was still higher than it was wide.
Indeed, that extra 2” of height over the PzIV truly was a battle-deciding factor :rolleyes:
 
The lower red thin line is top of the hull of T-34-85, the higher line is top of the turret (commander's cupola is nothwitstanding) of the Pz-IV.

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The lower red thin line is top of the hull of T-34-85, the higher line is top of the turret (commander's cupola is nothwitstanding) of the Pz-IV.

Someone has been playing with the dimensions of the Sherman. A Sherman was between 103 and 105 inches wide (Welded versus cast hulls) and 108 inches to the top of the turret hatches (not the cupola) Someone has stretched the height or shrunk the width.
 
Does not look to me as it was too much of fiddling around, Fast. The width, at least per measuring via the pdf, looks like ~95% of the height, as it should be? (those numbers by the red arrows are NOT any measuring units, just serve as ratio)

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Indeed, that extra 2” of height over the PzIV truly was a battle-deciding factor :rolleyes:
Several more inches if you eliminate the commander's cupola on the Panzer IV. Also, higher than it was wide. This makes firing on the move more difficult, as the gun's shaking around more, f.e. if the tanks all go over a quarter-metre hillock with one track, the Sherman tilts up by 5.48°, but only 4.98° for the Panzer IV, and 4.78° for the T-34. Now this might not sound like much, but at combat ranges (ie ~500m), the difference is marked.
 
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Add a frontal outline of an M3 Lee and the others will run away for fear of being crushed if it falls over.

The only good thing that could come of an M3 instead of an M4 is to put a 6 pounder in the turret as a tank killer and the 73mm in the hull as pure HE for infantry support and killing anti tank guns.
 
Add a frontal outline of an M3 Lee and the others will run away for fear of being crushed if it falls over.

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There was a idea among some Red Army tank crews the M4 was prone to tip over on slopes. I've never seen any evidence it actually was more vulnerable to this. No annecdoates of it happening or remarks on it in Hunnicutt or Zalogas books.

My engineering experience suggests to me the center of gravity on the M4 was not significantly high enough to make this a issue. Not more so than other tanks. If you are on slopes that steep you are probably not on good tank ground anyway.
 
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Several more inches if you eliminate the commander's cupola on the Panzer IV. Also, higher than it was wide. This makes firing on the move more difficult, as the gun's shaking around more, f.e. if the tanks all go over a quarter-metre hillock with one track, the Sherman tilts up by 5.48°, but only 4.98° for the Panzer IV, and 4.78° for the T-34. Now this might not sound like much, but at combat ranges (ie ~500m), the difference is marked.

HAHAHAHA.Firing on the move at 500m in a ww2 tank more difficult because the tank is taller?
Indeed, and threading a needle blindfolded while a doberman bites your nose would be marginally more difficult if you also had to whistle the Marseillaise, but not enough to make any meaningful difference.
axNn7.jpg

Go on, feast your eyes on the svelte sportscar-like lines of that low-slung T-34. Observe the miniscule almost-invisible compactness that will supposedly compensate for the horrible ergonomics, cramped escape hatches, flaky (or absent) radio, leg-amputating lack of a turret basket, poor optics and vision blocks, and inferior reliability.

Balls, quite frankly. If the historical Sherman is seen as not good enough, give it wet ammo stowage a bit earlier and something like the 77mm OQF or 3" M7 in a couple of tanks per platoon in time for D-Day. Job done, move on to more important things.
 
Balls, quite frankly. If the historical Sherman is seen as not good enough, give it wet ammo stowage a bit earlier and something like the 77mm OQF or 3" M7 in a couple of tanks per platoon in time for D-Day. Job done, move on to more important things.

Doesn't even need to be wet.

Just proper bins what was needed, not having 20+ rounds all around the basket. No one need that many ready rounds. Crews had extra rounds all over the place at first.
m4a2cross.jpg


In Korea, so M4 crews drained the glycol mix to lessen the weight, and did not suffer for it against the T34/85
 
Doesn't even need to be wet.

Just proper bins what was needed, not having 20+ rounds all around the basket. No one need that many ready rounds. Crews had extra rounds all over the place at first.

In Korea, so M4 crews drained the glycol mix to lessen the weight, and did not suffer for it against the T34/85

The Super Six in Exploitation pdf on CARL says they cut out the honeycomb in the ammo storage bins to get more ammo in them, something like 130 rounds in all. They learned that from armored unit that had already seen action.

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"Personnel of the division ordnance battalion visiting otherordnance organizations which had been in combat in support of armor found that further .modifications could be made to increase the orderly stowage of ammunition in tanks. The maintenance personnel of the ordnance proceeded to modify as many tanks as they could by cutting out the honeycombed ammunition racks in the tanks. This increased the ammunition capacity to 130 rounds of 75-mm shells and 10,000 rounds of caliber .30 ammunition for machine guns"

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http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p4013coll8/id/2538
 
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copy paste:
"Personnel of the division ordnance battalion visiting otherordnance organizations which had been in combat in support of armor found that further .modifications could be made to increase the orderly stowage of ammunition in tanks.

link

Unable to open the link. What was the date this occured?
 
Thanks. Probablly no way to documant it, but it would be interesting to see the relationship between ammo overload and crew survival, or hits to vehicle recovery.
 
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