WI: Lovecraft lives longer?

ThePest179

Banned
As it says in the title, what if Cosmic Horror writer HP Lovecraft didin't die until, say, the 1950's? What influence would his continued life have on the Cosmic Horror genre?
 
Good question, though somewhat obscure in his own life the guy had a major impact on Sci Fi and horror. the 50s,60s, and 70s are very rich with good sci fi stories and it would be interesting to see a living lovecraft. A lot of writers were very found of depicting alien civilizations as godlike and benevolent (2001, Close encounters, etc) with a corrupt and warlike human kind (abyss, some Star Trek). Lovecraft on the other hand was one of the only authors to ever appreciate the insignificance of man in the grand scheme of things and that might be popular in that time period.

Two other things, one is his racism in an era when that is going to be increasingly challenged. Lovecraft was really racist, but as I understand it that didn't necessarily extend to individuals hell he married a jewish woman. A lot might depend on if he mellows with age.

the other is why 1950? he would have only been about 60 he could have lived to the 70s and still write.
 
The issue is, he never made a lot of money from his writing, although often because he apparently wasn't the sort to try to push his stories, and so tended to leave them after they'd been rejected even just once or twice, so he mostly lived off an (nearly depleted by the time of his death) inheritance, so it's quite possibly even odds whether he'd make it through the war regardless.
 
Good question, though somewhat obscure in his own life the guy had a major impact on Sci Fi and horror. the 50s,60s, and 70s are very rich with good sci fi stories and it would be interesting to see a living lovecraft. A lot of writers were very found of depicting alien civilizations as godlike and benevolent (2001, Close encounters, etc) with a corrupt and warlike human kind (abyss, some Star Trek). Lovecraft on the other hand was one of the only authors to ever appreciate the insignificance of man in the grand scheme of things and that might be popular in that time period.

Two other things, one is his racism in an era when that is going to be increasingly challenged. Lovecraft was really racist, but as I understand it that didn't necessarily extend to individuals hell he married a jewish woman. A lot might depend on if he mellows with age.

the other is why 1950? he would have only been about 60 he could have lived to the 70s and still write.

A lot of Lovecraft's racism was also more of a going out of his way to be offensive in certain social circles.

Also, it should be noted in his later years his racism was on a bit of a decline. I doubt it would ever go away completely in his writings because too many of his concepts were built on generational guilt.
 
As it says in the title, what if Cosmic Horror writer HP Lovecraft didin't die until, say, the 1950's? What influence would his continued life have on the Cosmic Horror genre?
Lovecraft was super racist and a Nazi sympathiser. I wonder how he'd react to the holocaust.
 
Lovecraft was super racist and a Nazi sympathiser. I wonder how he'd react to the holocaust.

He'd probably be horrified. He was married to a Jewish woman, and, people forget this, he was becoming less racist towards the end of his life.
Another interesting thing, what would he think of the atomic bomb.?
 
Racist, yes, Nazi sympathiser, you're going to need to provide evidence of that.
As for the Nazis-of their crudeness there be no dispute, yet in many ways the impartial analyst cannot help feeling a certain sympathy for some phases of their position. They are fighting, in their naive & narrow way, a certain widespread & insidious mood of recent years which certainly spells potential decadence for the western world-& one can't help respecting that however ugly & even dangerous some of them may appear to be. Hitler is no Mussolini-but I'm damned if the poor chap isnt profoundly sincere & patriotic, it is to his credit rather than otherwise that doesn't subscribe to the windy flatulence of the idealistic "liberals" whose policies lead only to chaos & collapse.

I believe he was writing to Robert E. Howard.
 
He'd probably be horrified. He was married to a Jewish woman, and, people forget this, he was becoming less racist towards the end of his life.
Another interesting thing, what would he think of the atomic bomb.?
Was he? I know that through his correspondence with Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard's racism simmered down, but did Lovecraft really become more tolerant near the end? Good for him then. Most people at the time were racist.
 
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Was he? I know that through his correspondence with Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard's racism simmered down, but did Lovecraft really become more tolerant near the end? Good for him then. Most people at the time were racist.

Well, not tolerant per se, but his racist opinions were starting to calm down. I read somewhere he was starting to tire about the topic, and he didn't want to talk about. And really, if you read anything of his works from that era, like Mountains of Madness, they aren't as full of racial terms and undertones as his earlier works.
 

ThePest179

Banned
Well, not tolerant per se, but his racist opinions were starting to calm down. I read somewhere he was starting to tire about the topic, and he didn't want to talk about. And really, if you read anything of his works from that era, like Mountains of Madness, they aren't as full of racial terms and undertones as his earlier works.

Bumping to ask:
With inventions such as the Atomic Bomb and the nightmarish "Final Solution", how (if at all) might Lovecraft's stories be influenced?
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Bumping to ask:
With inventions such as the Atomic Bomb and the nightmarish "Final Solution", how (if at all) might Lovecraft's stories be influenced?

Poorly.

His writings would most likely become more nightmarish, reflecting heavily on the industrialization of murder and the ease upon which man can do it. I imagine that if he continues, then he'd end reflecting on how man, even with cosmic monsters, are the worst of the lot.
 
Poorly.

His writings would most likely become more nightmarish, reflecting heavily on the industrialization of murder and the ease upon which man can do it. I imagine that if he continues, then he'd end reflecting on how man, even with cosmic monsters, are the worst of the lot.

Maybe he could do a story about Man, trying to destory one of the many cosmic monsters, destory most of the Earth with Atomic Bombs.
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Okay, I've had a long thought about it, and here's an optimistic overview of what could happen (Assuming he lives until 1970 and writes until at least 1968).

Okay, so the late, late thirties will most likely be supportive of Fascism. I know, a bit cliche, but it's likely.

The first half of the 40's will be dominated by a rejection of this. It's likely that his stories will denounce the Nazi's and his stories will be heavily allegorical about the Axis Powers. I see support of the Interment camps and rather Japanophobic themes emerging.

The second half of the 40's and the 50's however will be dominated by the themes of human self destruction, spurred by the concentration camps and atomic bombs. Assuming Lovecraft takes the Holocaust at face value (I wouldn't blame him if he didn't, it'd be a lot to digest), then we'd see stories about how man is their own worst enemy. I had a thought on a story of this style about a young man traveling through Dachau, thinking it to be some kind of Alien reservation for man, only to discover it's true nature and go mad. I can also imagine he'd write a story from the perspective of someone on the Hiroshima ground zero. It's possible he'd shift away from Racism and view all men as equal in the vast meaninglessness of existence.

The late 50's would likely continue to be dominated by the themes of atomic Armageddon, but also of Communist Paranoia. I expect stories that treat communism in the vein of The Shadow over Innsmouth. Thoughts on youth culture and the rise of rock 'n roll emerge, likely in a negative fashion. Movies made about his books would probably be fewer, unless Lovecraft was hard on cash.

The early 60's would likely be cynical, however not without idealism, although I suspect his racism would rear it's head with the Civil Rights Movement. By the mid-60's, it's likely he'd find a home among counter-culture, writing stories of the meaningless of the war and the sacrifice of the men. Overall his work would become more tractfull, although I can see his racism declining. In the end, he'd be seen as a spent force, likely forgotten until some young people in the 80's and 90's rediscover his works...
 
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The issue is, he never made a lot of money from his writing, although often because he apparently wasn't the sort to try to push his stories, and so tended to leave them after they'd been rejected even just once or twice, so he mostly lived off an (nearly depleted by the time of his death) inheritance, so it's quite possibly even odds whether he'd make it through the war regardless.

He might have had a bit of Renaissance after Pearl Harbor. He's a semi-published writer who can string together wild, cartoonishly racist sentiments about Asians with good prose. He could see a professional renaissance as a propagandist once the war starts. One wonder how he'd talk up the bomb, considering it would seem to intersect with the racial theories that prop up so much of his writings.
 
Okay, I've had a long thought about it, and here's an optimistic overview of what could happen (Assuming he lives until 1970 and writes until at least 1968).

Okay, so the late, late thirties will most likely be supportive of Fascism. I know, a bit cliche, but it's likely.

The first half of the 40's will be dominated by a rejection of this. It's likely that his stories will denounce the Nazi's and his stories will be heavily allegorical about the Axis Powers. I see support of the Interment camps and rather Japanophobic themes emerging.

The second half of the 40's and the 50's however will be dominated by the themes of human self destruction, spurred by the concentration camps and atomic bombs. Assuming Lovecraft takes the Holocaust at face value (I wouldn't blame him if he didn't, it'd be a lot to digest), then we'd see stories about how man is their own worst enemy. I had a thought on a story of this style about a young man traveling through Dachau, thinking it to be some kind of Alien reservation for man, only to discover it's true nature and go mad. I can also imagine he'd write a story from the perspective of someone on the Hiroshima ground zero. It's possible he'd shift away from Racism and view all men as equal in the vast meaninglessness of existence.

The late 50's would likely continue to be dominated by the themes of atomic Armageddon, but also of Communist Paranoia. I expect stories that treat communism in the vein of The Shadow over Innsmouth. Thoughts on youth culture and the rise of rock 'n roll emerge, likely in a negative fashion. Movies made about his books would probably be fewer, unless Lovecraft was hard on cash.

The early 60's would likely be cynical, however not without idealism, although I suspect his racism would rear it's head with the Civil Rights Movement. By the mid-60's, it's likely he'd find a home among counter-culture, writing stories of the meaningless of the war and the sacrifice of the men. Overall his work would become more tractfull, although I can see his racism declining. In the end, he'd be seen as a spent force, likely forgotten until some young people in the 80's and 90's rediscover his works...
Would he condemn their expansion? He expressed sympathy for Japan and felt it was hypocritical to condemn their expansion.
 
Poorly.

His writings would most likely become more nightmarish, reflecting heavily on the industrialization of murder and the ease upon which man can do it. I imagine that if he continues, then he'd end reflecting on how man, even with cosmic monsters, are the worst of the lot.

I think in many ways his writing proved to be more powerful after the bomb than before.

Mans first foray into a glimpse of cosmic power leaves mankind more terrified than it had ever been before.

I could see him writing a "post Cthulhu rising" apocalypse that I would love to see.
 
Lovecraft was super racist and a Nazi sympathiser. I wonder how he'd react to the holocaust.

Lovecraft died in 1937 when a lot of people were in denial about the nature of the Nazi regime. Isolated sympathetic statements during this time and earlier are not indicative of support later on. If you go back early enough, even Churchill had some good things to say about Hitler. I suspect that whatever quotes you have date back very early in the Nazi seizure of power.

Even people who were outright anti-Semites were horrified at the Holocaust. Given that Lovecraft had married a Jew and was a huge Anglophile, it's likely he would have rejected the Nazis entirely once WWII began and be shocked at the Holocaust.

Lovecraft was abandoning many of his earlier held beliefs towards the end of his life. His racism was likely to become something that was noticeable even for its time to merely conforming to the extant prejudices of his era. He seemed to have abandoned his earlier fondness for monarchial rule to socialism, but I always thought his natural sympathies for elite rule had simply changed from landed aristocracy to a technocratic elite. He still displayed aversion to the "masses."
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Would he condemn their expansion? He expressed sympathy for Japan and felt it was hypocritical to condemn their expansion.

Whilst expression sympathy, when war comes around and the interment camps come along, he's either going to be dead against it and write in support of the Japanese American plight, or (more likely) he'll support the camps as a necessary precaution and the war overall, attempting a reproach following the war. I doubt he'll criticize the expansion, but it's likely he'll criticize the violence of the expansion.
 
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