WI love wasn't invented?

The thing we recognise as 'love' is probably closer to being the biological instinct to mate. Without that, there isn't really a human population around to begin with.

- BNC
 
The thing we recognise as 'love' is probably closer to being the biological instinct to mate. Without that, there isn't really a human population around to begin with.

- BNC

The OP isn't talking about biochemical love, but a socially constructed concept called 'love' created in the Middle Ages. As an aside, 'love' is simply an exchange of pheromones designed to make us want to engage with someone sexually in order to reproduce. It's the same with all animals, and it doesn't last (turning into simple comfort and friendship later in life, but with echoes of an attraction since lost).

I imagine society would be very different without the idea of 'courtly love', since, at a glance, it seems to be the basis for all kinds of romantic gestures still used today (chivalry being the primary one, which is a pretty broad thing). Without it, perhaps what we know as love only applies to matters of marriage, admiration on a personal level, and of course sex.
 
I personally don't buy that romantic love is a thing which came out of medieval Europe, simply because of all the non-European and pre-medieval stories I've heard which feature ideas which I would identify as romantic love. Maybe I have a broader definition of romantic love than other people?
 
Thing is contract marriage was an invented thing, so starting from the premise that it is natural doesn't really make sense. Contract marriage was mostly enforced to determine inheritance, whereas the vast majority of the poor simply married when someone got pregnant. The main thing was that the people that wrote during the period were the rich and powerful that had huge stakes in inheritance and they reinforced that idea with laws imposed on society as a whole. Romantic love was still around, even among the powerful where multiple lovers was the norm but mostly unrecorded.

Also if it comes to it, I would invent it and teach the people this thing called "love" in such a TL
 
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Nothing would change. As @telynk pointed out, "romantic love" is far, far older.

The Ramayana which has routes dating back to 3000BC for instance is HUGELY romantic in areas.
Rama, despite being God, is only broken to lose his cool when Sita is taken away, threatening in some versions to destroy reality if she is in any way harmed.

Although the end of the story has them tragically separated, Rama is essentially a broken man because he can't be with her, and depending on your interpretation of Vaishnavite Hinduism, Vishnu/Rama and Lakshmi/Sita appear and reappear throughout history, forgetting each other but falling deeply in love through every incarnation in what may be the most romantic pairing in human literature/mythology. Their love set a precedent for India's own version of "courtly love", never mind the contributions of Shaivanite Hinduism (for example).
 
I personally don't buy that romantic love is a thing which came out of medieval Europe, simply because of all the non-European and pre-medieval stories I've heard which feature ideas which I would identify as romantic love. Maybe I have a broader definition of romantic love than other people?

Agreed. The idea that romantic love was somehow invented in the medieval period always struck me as an old wives tale of history, like people believing the world was flat.
 
You are starting with the false premise that 'romantic love' was 'invented' - it evolved from biological imperatives as the human brain and society evolved. So, to me, the question is ASB, not this forum.
 
I think there are aspects of romantic love and courtship which are not completely overlapping with what we call romantic.

Think Lancelot and Guenievre. There is a particular form of distant respect and adoration, of precedence of the Lady which can be platonic.

If you read "La Princesse de Cleves", often called the first "roman" which is a specific French term, it goes over and over AND OVER over this. There was a strict set of steps to follow
 
I think there are aspects of romantic love and courtship which are not completely overlapping with what we call romantic.

Think Lancelot and Guenievre. There is a particular form of distant respect and adoration, of precedence of the Lady which can be platonic.

If you read "La Princesse de Cleves", often called the first "roman" which is a specific French term, it goes over and over AND OVER over this. There was a strict set of steps to follow
But "courting rituals" are not even unique to other european romantic traditions, nevermind the rest of the entire planet.
 
But "courting rituals" are not even unique to other european romantic traditions, nevermind the rest of the entire planet.
There are courting ritual everywhere but I'd say some are fairly specific.

Dropping the handkerchief comes directly from this. Tying a handkerchief or ribbon to a lance before joust...

It's also tied to Christianity: the princess of Cleves for example will join a convent rather than succumb to physical love.

Again, the whole idea is not specific but there are European specifics coming from chivalry ideals
 
There are courting ritual everywhere but I'd say some are fairly specific.

Dropping the handkerchief comes directly from this. Tying a handkerchief or ribbon to a lance before joust...

It's also tied to Christianity: the princess of Cleves for example will join a convent rather than succumb to physical love.

Again, the whole idea is not specific but there are European specifics coming from chivalry ideals
But there were also other european courting rituals as well. Just a slightly different set of them might produce some form of divergence, but I am not sure it would be a notable one, like "wi the roman salute had been done w ith the other hand?"
 
But there were also other european courting rituals as well. Just a slightly different set of them might produce some form of divergence, but I am not sure it would be a notable one, like "wi the roman salute had been done w ith the other hand?"
Won't disagree here. I'm away from home due to work and with nothing better to do than reminisce at the nightmare that was the study of the Princesse de Clèves in lycée...

Doubt there'd be a lot of impact as something else would take it's place
 
Love has differing meanings and nuances; courtly love is (supposed to be) a set of rules for flirtation and adoration in a formalized setting which allows the man to prove himself and avoids besmirching the woman's reputation and doesn't actually require the players to know or even like one another - it's the thought and action that counts there; chivalry is a code of conduct for men of honor and doesn't have anything to do with love (except perhaps love of self).

The question, "WI love isn't invented?" presupposes love is an invention. It's an emotion, like anger, or sadness, or happiness. The expression of this emotion changed as society did.
 
Maybe what he's talking about is the idealization of romantic love, as unselfish, virtuous, and not necessarily erotic? In Roman times, love was considered a disease of excess passion. This of course led to the accusation against early Christians that they were a society of free love, and were sexual degenerates. The Chinese and Japanese rarely use the word "love" (ai) as it's considered too strong, as well.
 
That doesn't change that love is an EMOTION. Emotions aren't inventions. It's as if he asked WI jealousy had never been invented (answer: Abel would have lived longer....)
 
That doesn't change that love is an EMOTION. Emotions aren't inventions. It's as if he asked WI jealousy had never been invented (answer: Abel would have lived longer....)
Yes but that's not what OP is posting about. He specifically says Courtly love. Not the emotion, the set of rituals
 
Since his thread title asks about an emotion, then he caveats to "romantic love" and links to a game played by rich people before Atari came along.....what this forum is about is ?????????

His link says courtly love, but his question does not. Courtly love was a game played by bored rich women and guys who wished they could be higher up the food chain. Two completely different things.
 
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