WI: Louis Philip Duke of Orleans wasn't killed in the Revolution

Because he escaped, was acquitted, or never tried? (choice 3 seems improbable without choice 1).

Acquittal seems most interesting and most likely - he doesn't seem the sort to try and escape.

Means his sons weren't imprisoned, so two of them live and Louis-Philippe is both less cautious and more cynical. Could be interesting down the road.

He becomes Napoleon's elephant in the room: a strong claimant to the throne that Nappy doesn't dare kill, mistreat or exile. And his base of support, such as it is, is Paris proper. I wonder if Napoleon doesn't dare crown himself Emperor, forced to remain Consul-for-life? Which doesn't prevent him from setting up his brothers, but, well, hm.

Depending on exactly when and how Nappy falls, Philippe may wind up King.
 
Never liked the guy. A sneak like all the Orleans men. So I say he becomes an emigre like the rest and this makes for an interesting Bourbon soap opera. Estranged from the royal family, he remains an alternate pretender to the throne with alternate hosts. Maybe he takes up residence with the Sultan. From Constantinople he hurls invective at both Napoleon and the Bourbons. He dies in the arms of a prostitute and his sons reconcile with Charles X only to stab him in the back in 1830.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
Citoyen Égalité was a rather moderate Jacobin, perhaps even more properly a Feuillant, and had been involved in the revolution from the very beginning, though he'd supported remodeling France into a constitutional monarchy with a strong aristocracy à la Britain in the same period. As well he had no real political ambitions himself, he certainly never threw in his lot with his distant cousins in the main Bourbon line. However he was of a prince of the blood, and with the defection of his eldest son & Dumouriez he was certainly going to be arrested; on the other hand he's rather low on the list of succession to the throne, and his other three sons that were also arrested were allowed to live IOTL.

Really what you need is for the duc de Chartres not to join Dumouriez's plot. The whole family would likely still be imprisoned, but there's a chance for the entire family to survive and simply get exiled under the Directory. This is actually pretty easy to do, the younger Louis Philippe was certainly torn over whether or not to join with Dumouriez in fleeing to the Austrians after actively fighting against the latter's idea to ally with the enemy and turn counter-revolutionary. So a simple POD.

Now, what happens afterward, well that's anyone's guess. What might be really interesting here is his influence on early American politics, as that'd likely be his destination after being exiled from France. IOTL his sons met with some of the major American leaders, Washington, Hamilton, etc. The Western world was flooded with exiled young princes at the time, but a major actor like Philippe Égalité, who had been a key figure in the early revolution before the revolution turned to radicalism, well that'd be something different.
 
What happens if Louis Philip, the Duke of Orleans, wasn't killed in the French Revolution in 1793?

Considering he voted to execute King Louis XVI? Nothing good. If he escapes he's estranged from his cousins, the French Émigrés and most of the European sovereigns and nobles. No one likes a regicide. I'd imagine that he would flee to most likely Britain, Germany or Italy, sense I can't see Spain, Austria or Russia accepting him. What would really be interesting is how his survival effects relations from the main Bourbon branch and their cousins, as the Duc would remain the head of the House of Orleans. I can see Marie Therese using him as a way to convince Charles X to keep the d'Orleans at arms length and that would perhaps allow the Bourbons to remain on the throne, via Henri V (Duc de Bordeaux & Comte de Chambord).
 

dead_wolf

Banned
Considering he voted to execute King Louis XVI? Nothing good. If he escapes he's estranged from his cousins, the French Émigrés and most of the European sovereigns and nobles. No one likes a regicide. I'd imagine that he would flee to most likely Britain, Germany or Italy, sense I can't see Spain, Austria or Russia accepting him. What would really be interesting is how his survival effects relations from the main Bourbon branch and their cousins, as the Duc would remain the head of the House of Orleans. I can see Marie Therese using him as a way to convince Charles X to keep the d'Orleans at arms length and that would perhaps allow the Bourbons to remain on the throne, via Henri V (Duc de Bordeaux & Comte de Chambord).

Would the duc de Orleans even be allowed/invited back to France following a successful Restoration? He might be able to claim he only voted in favor in order to save his own life, as voting against the execution would be seen as throwing his lot in with Louis XVI, but I doubt that'd hold much weight with a romantic reactionary like Louis XVIII.
 
Would the duc de Orleans even be allowed/invited back to France following a successful Restoration? He might be able to claim he only voted in favor in order to save his own life, as voting against the execution would be seen as throwing his lot in with Louis XVI, but I doubt that'd hold much weight with a romantic reactionary like Louis XVIII.

No way would he be allowed to return. In Marie Therese and Louis XVIII's eyes the Duc murdered their father/brother with his vote. Remember that in 1789-1792 the Duc clearly threw his lot in with the revolutionaries, in hopes of being made King. No chance that the King and Comte d'Artois would have forgotten that.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
No way would he be allowed to return. In Marie Therese and Louis XVIII's eyes the Duc murdered their father/brother with his vote. Remember that in 1789-1792 the Duc clearly threw his lot in with the revolutionaries, in hopes of being made King. No chance that the King and Comte d'Artois would have forgotten that.

I wouldn't agree that he'd voted in favor purely in order to get a chance at the throne, or even that such a line of thinking was a major component in his decision, but I suppose that's one point of historical contention that we'll never truly know the answer to.

What about his sons, would they also be permanently banned for lack of a better term? Without the Orleans for the French liberals to rally around I'm not sure how the opposition doesn't give into republicanism in face of the Restoration's reactionary policies & attempts to put the genie back in the bottle, as it were, in regards to equality, liberty, etc. That would have major implications for not just French but European history.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
Heck actually thinking about this further, would there even be a Bourbon Restoration? The British were in favor of it upon Napoleon's abdication in 1814, but the Austrians wanted Napoleon's son Francois under a Regency (I assume under Marie Louise, ?), and the Russians were split between offering the throne to Louis Philippe (the younger, obviously), and Jean Bernadotte, who by then was already Crown Prince & Regent of Sweden. Bernadotte would likely refuse, at least in my estimation, and with Louis Philippe the elder still alive the Orleans option isn't available, so could the Russians throw their support behind young Francois? I mean Napoleon himself had been offered to keep the throne if he agreed to return France to its 1792 borders, so obviously there wasn't a huge anti-Bonapartist feeling in the Great Powers.
 
I wouldn't agree that he'd voted in favor purely in order to get a chance at the throne, or even that such a line of thinking was a major component in his decision, but I suppose that's one point of historical contention that we'll never truly know the answer to.

What about his sons, would they also be permanently banned for lack of a better term? Without the Orleans for the French liberals to rally around I'm not sure how the opposition doesn't give into republicanism in face of the Restoration's reactionary policies & attempts to put the genie back in the bottle, as it were, in regards to equality, liberty, etc. That would have major implications for not just French but European history.

Oh I agree but when you look at the Duc's actions during Louis VI's reign and the early revolution shows that he was incredibly petty and very much enjoyed stirring the pot against his cousins when the Royal House should have been united, so I doubt the returning Royal family would allow the Duc back into France.

And I can't comment about his sons, or rather son sense the rest were dead at the time of the Restoration, but if they distanced themselves from their father and rallied with the rest of the Bourbons during the years of exile then I can see them being allowed back into the country. If not then they remain in exile. As for Republicanism, it really wasn't a power during the Bourbon restoration or if it was it was a minority. First off the only other Republic France has had at this point was an abysmal failure in terms of Governing. And second this was the era of the Holy Alliance intervening against revolutionary activity across Europe. If the Bourbons were replaced with a Revolutionary republic then we might just see the various HA nations rally to intervene and place the Bourbons on the throne for a third time. Or maybe even the d'Orleans. Who know really.

Heck actually thinking about this further, would there even be a Bourbon Restoration? The British were in favor of it upon Napoleon's abdication in 1814, but the Austrians wanted Napoleon's son Francois under a Regency (I assume under Marie Louise, ?), and the Russians were split between offering the throne to Louis Philippe (the younger, obviously), and Jean Bernadotte, who by then was already Crown Prince & Regent of Sweden. Bernadotte would likely refuse, at least in my estimation, and with Louis Philippe the elder still alive the Orleans option isn't available, so could the Russians throw their support behind young Francois? I mean Napoleon himself had been offered to keep the throne if he agreed to return France to its 1792 borders, so obviously there wasn't a huge anti-Bonapartist feeling in the Great Powers.

No chance of a Napoleon II. I had asked that very question a bit earlier and the consensus was that the Great powers feared that France would either become a puppet of Austria or that Napoleon II would want revenge for his father later down the road. Plus there was the fact that after the war the Allies of Britain, Russia, Austria and Prussia were trying to turn back the clock and restore Europe to as close to its pre 1792 status as possible. Leaving the Bonapartes in France is completely opposite of that ideal. Also Napoleon was offered that (supposedly) before the battle of Leipzig. After that no one was in the mood for peace with Napoleon.

Really in 1814/15 the Bourbon Restoration was the best of a series of bad choices for the allies. They couldn't tolerate a Bonaparte, wouldn't consider a Republic and were against cutting up the country into the old duchies/counties. It was either the Bourbons or picking a Royal from their own dynasties to take the throne and I can't see the French public tolerating that.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
If not then they remain in exile. As for Republicanism, it really wasn't a power during the Bourbon restoration or if it was it was a minority. First off the only other Republic France has had at this point was an abysmal failure in terms of Governing. And second this was the era of the Holy Alliance intervening against revolutionary activity across Europe. If the Bourbons were replaced with a Revolutionary republic then we might just see the various HA nations rally to intervene and place the Bourbons on the throne for a third time. Or maybe even the d'Orleans. Who know really.

Not saying France will become a republic again anytime soon, what I meant was that without a unifying figure to rally around the various people in opposition to the Bourbons, e.g.; those who had become used to the liberties they'd enjoyed first under the various republican governments and then the empire, and who fought against the ultras' attempts to restore the old order, would be hard pressed to find a way to present an effective united opposition. This would mean the moderate-to-liberal opposition, both intellectuals and the common man, would be forced to turn to the republicans simply for lack of any other option... outside of potentially the Bonapartists, but Francois had effectively been a political prisoner of the Hapsburgs all his life. So when/if the 1830 Revolution or its ATL equivalent rolls around, who do the liberals place on the throne to replace Charles X? Certainly not Louis Antoine, and even if they did he'd likely abdicate as he did IOTL. That'd leave either Henri, who was a child, which means a long regency, or the disgraced and banished Orleans. Or a republic.
 
Considering he voted to execute King Louis XVI? Nothing good. If he escapes he's estranged from his cousins, the French Émigrés and most of the European sovereigns and nobles. No one likes a regicide. I'd imagine that he would flee to most likely Britain, Germany or Italy, sense I can't see Spain, Austria or Russia accepting him.
How about America?
 
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