WI: Louis I (the lion) of England?

Just learnt about King Louis VIII of France that was crowned King of England while the barons were revolting against King John. The only reason he didn't become king was that King John died and the barons supported John's son Henry III.

So what if King John hadn't died before Louis could establish his total authority. How would of this affected England in the middle ages? Would have England and France been ruled as one kingdom?

Certainly interesting either way!

Link if you don't know about him, like I didn't!
 
Probably, with the Capets using England as a springboard to continue French centralization.

And it's a reverse of the Angevin Empire situation - uniting England and France but with the French crown clearly the superior.

See also the Clavis Angliae TL.
 
If Louis VIII of France had suceeded in becoming Louis I of England, then France and England would have been in personnal Union from 1223 (death of Louis' father, Philip II Augustus) up until Louis' death. After him, I do not know if the two crowns would have remained united. The reason is because upon his OTL death, Louis gave apanages to his surviving sons:

  • His eldest son became St.Louis IX, King of France.
  • His second son, Robert, received the County of Artois. Artois was a county Louis had inherited from his mother, Isabealla of Hainaut, since that was her dowry when she married Philip II Augustus.
  • His third son, John Tristan, received the Counties of Anjou and Maine. John died at age 13 in 1232 OTL.
  • His fourth son, Alphonse, received the County of Poitiers. Later in his life, he would marry the last Countess of Toulouse, Joan. However, Alphonse and Joan didn't have any children.
The only ones who didn't get apanages were the youngest ones: the four year old Philip Dagobert and the not yet born Charles (Blanche de Castille was pregnant with him when Louis VIII died). The first died at age 10 in 1232 OTL while the second had a rather interesting career as he became Count of Provence by marriage, received Anjou & Maine from Louis IX and even became King of Naples & Sicily.
Because of the many apanages Louis VIII gave to his sons, I tend to think it's likely he would split up his domains with France going to his eldest son and England to his second son. His other sons would probably still get Apanages but they are probably going to be different from OTL, with maybe the practice of a mix of English and French lands (like the Anglo-Normand nobility usually did).

It's possible that butterflies will aslo allow for Louis VIII to live longer but I'm not sure as he died during the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars. He wasn't killed in battle: he caught dysentry while returning back to Paris. Louis' nickname, the Lion (sometimes, it's even Lionheart), was because he was an incredible fighter and very brave: I thus tend to think he would have gone on this crusade anyway. Now, it's possible that having two kingdoms to rule would forbid him from going on the Crusade, especially since ruling England wouldn't be the same as ruling France (England having the Magna Carta while France doesn't).

Louis VIII of France becoming King of England could also allow for some of his children to live up to adulthood if they were to follow their father in England from time to time: the most interesting case would be a son named Philip (1209-1218) because that would make him the eldest surviving son of Louis VIII. Yet again, I don't know how likely it would be for those butterflies to appear because of the POD.
One last minor butterfly concerning Louis VIII's family is that he could probably have a couple more kids with Blanche de Castille if he were to live longer: they were apparently very close from each other and the fact Louis VIII left Blanche pregnant when he died also plays in favor of this possibility.

That's it for Louis VIII's personnal life and family. Now, let's have a better look on the political consequences for England and France, wether or not the two crowns are separated upon Louis VIII & I's death.
For England, it probably means the Capetians will try to do what they did in France: increase royal authority as well as the Royal Dosmaine. They will probably apply the Magna Carta until the King of England finds himself strong enough to repel his Barons. Thus, I think England would follow a path of centralization. Scotland isn't going to be an immediate threat for England since Louis VIII was rather friendly to Alexander II of Scotland: I even see the possibility a royal marriage happening to keep up the good realtionship between France-England & Scotland, probably between the future King of England and a daughter/niece/cousin of Alexander II. I do not know enough English history to say how Louis VIII becoming King would affect Wales and Ireland, though it seems to me the Welsh supported Louis VIII during his failed invasion OTL.
As for France, it will effectively make it the first European Power during the Middle Age. It will have formally annexed all of the continental holdings of the former Angevin Empire (Normandy, Anjou, Maine, Tourraine & Poitiers which were conquered by Philip II + Aquitaine thanks to Louis VIII), which is going to give it considerable wealth. England will be neutralised as a threat for the years to come: relations aren't going to fall apart before a major incident breaks out. Without the threat of a war with England, France will be able to expand on its northern (Flanders and Netherlands), southern (Navarra, parts of Catalonia) and eastern borders (Lorraine, Provence, Alsace among others). The French will also probably try to annex Britanny at one point: I tend to think it will be done via pacific means since the ruling Dukes are going to be of the House of Dreux, a cadet branch of the Capetians.
One last possible thing, that concerns the two countries, would be the developpment of an Anglo-French nobility modeled on the Anglo-Normands: by this I mean nobles holdings lands both in France and England.
 
Assuming Louis won. Which is somewhat unlikely.

A) He was excommunicated, with the Pope backing the Angevin claim.

B) His father Philip had washed his hands of the whole affair. So, no levies from France coming to help him out.

C) That flood of barons to Henry III's banners was not just because John was dead--in fact there'd been a steady trickle to the Angevins throughout the entire affair.
 
Top