WI: Louis, Duc d'Orléans Survives?

[Kellan Sullivan]

So thanks to @Prince de Pringondani for reviving my interest in this topic. I was wondering if we might see an "expansion" of the Orléans "empire" of landholdings in France, here? In fact, I still can't figure out just how the Orléans family went from one of the largest landowners under Louis I to that by Louis XI's reign they seemed to have either mortgaged everything off or lost it by other means, since the family seems to have been in rather dire circumstances FWIG (although this may be exaggerated).

Obviously Charles le Poete's ransom played a role in these estates being mortgaged to the gills, and his long imprisonment and Burgundian ascension did the Orléans lands no favours. So, if Charles is dead (killed as collateral damage in the attack on his father), what would happen to the Orléans lands and moneys here?

@FouDuRoy @RedKing @Dr.Evil @isabella

 

[ordinarylittleme]

So thanks to @Prince de Pringondani for reviving my interest in this topic. I was wondering if we might see an "expansion" of the Orléans "empire" of landholdings in France, here? In fact, I still can't figure out just how the Orléans family went from one of the largest landowners under Louis I to that by Louis XI's reign they seemed to have either mortgaged everything off or lost it by other means, since the family seems to have been in rather dire circumstances FWIG (although this may be exaggerated).

Obviously Charles le Poete's ransom played a role in these estates being mortgaged to the gills, and his long imprisonment and Burgundian ascension did the Orléans lands no favours. So, if Charles is dead (killed as collateral damage in the attack on his father), what would happen to the Orléans lands and moneys here?

@FouDuRoy @RedKing @Dr.Evil @isabella

I think the Orleans land/money goes back to the crown, right?

 

[RedKing]

Obviously Charles le Poete's ransom played a role in these estates being mortgaged to the gills, and his long imprisonment and Burgundian ascension did the Orléans lands no favours. So, if Charles is dead (killed as collateral damage in the attack on his father), what would happen to the Orléans lands and moneys here?

If I am not mistaken wouldn't the majority of it go to John of Angouleme by virtue of the being the next-in line to the Duchy (unless Philip is still alive/lives longer), while his maternal lands go to whoever his Mother's closest living relative is.

 

[FouDuRoy]

Obviously Charles le Poete's ransom played a role in these estates being mortgaged to the gills, and his long imprisonment and Burgundian ascension did the Orléans lands no favours. So, if Charles is dead (killed as collateral damage in the attack on his father), what would happen to the Orléans lands and moneys here?

If I am not mistaken wouldn't the majority of it go to John of Angouleme by virtue of the being the next-in line to the Duchy (unless Philip is still alive/lives longer), while his maternal lands go to whoever his Mother's closest living relative is.

If both Charles and Philip die childless, obviously, John is the heir.
The problem is that, in OTL, John was sent to England as a hostage, meaning you still have a ransom to pay. 😅
Unless of couse he is not hostage in TTL.
If Charles is "killed as collateral damage in the attack on his father", do you mean he dies in 1407?
If so, John being hostage may be butterflied away as he was sent to England only in 1412 in OTL. That's not sure, though, as he would still not be duke of Orléans in 1412: Philip would be.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

If both Charles and Philip die childless, obviously, John is the heir.
The problem is that, in OTL, John was sent to England as a hostage, meaning you still have a ransom to pay. 😅
Unless of couse he is not hostage in TTL.
If Charles is "killed as collateral damage in the attack on his father", do you mean he dies in 1407?
If so, John being hostage may be butterflied away as he was sent to England only in 1412 in OTL. That's not sure, though, as he would still not be duke of Orléans in 1412: Philip would be.

Charles le Poète would be killed in 1407 yes

 

[FouDuRoy]

Charles le Poète would be killed in 1407 yes

Okay.
So, Philip becomes duke of Orléans in 1407. If he still dies childless in 1420, John is his heir.
I have no idea if John is still sent to England as a hostage in TTL.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Okay.
So, Philip becomes duke of Orléans in 1407. If he still dies childless in 1420, John is his heir.
I have no idea if John is still sent to England as a hostage in TTL.

Well, Louis' survival would mean things in France between 1407-1412 might shake out differently, no?

 

[FouDuRoy]

Well, Louis' survival would mean things in France between 1407-1412 might shake out differently, no?

Sure.