WI Lionel of Antwerp had a son?

Lets say Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence had a posthumous son named Guglielmo di Clarence in 1369 by his second wife Violante Visconti. So what happens next? Please discuss!!!
 
Clarence is second in line after his older cousin/s (the sons of Edward the Black Prince) to the throne, this makes him a rather important and relevant figure - how much so depending a lot on him.

William (to use the English form) doesn't have a claim to Milan except after his uncle and cousin/s, so he probably is more interested in English/French politics than Italian ones.

How does he get along with Richard (II)? The two are nearly of an age, and Clarence's support may make a lot of difference - or consequently, Clarence has the best claim to throne if something happens to Richard as stated above, which may motivate him to make himself William III.
 
I think Richard (II) would see Clarence (William) as a rival, like he did with everyone else in his family. Clarence would remain loyal until Richard has an heir. (Like Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York did.) Does anyone know who Clarence would marry?
 
I think Richard (II) would see Clarence (William) as a rival, like he did with everyone else in his family. Clarence would remain loyal until Richard has an heir. (Like Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York did.) Does anyone know who Clarence would marry?

Richard might see him as a rival, might not. He certainly didn't see the Earls of March as a threat, who were the heirs presumptive during his reign. As for Clarence's marriage, I'd guess either Elizabeth or Catherine of Lancaster or Constance of York. All three home grown princesses and any of these marriages would strengthen his claim to the throne. Plus there were very few foreign marriages during the hundred years war.
 
I can see Clarence marrying a more distant cousin, maybe one of the de Bohun heiresses, or a Beauchamp, Neville, Mortimer, Hastings, Holland.

Was Lionel made Earl of Ulster in his own right, or just jure uxoris?
 
I can see Clarence marrying a more distant cousin, maybe one of the de Bohun heiresses, or a Beauchamp, Neville, Mortimer, Hastings, Holland.

Was Lionel made Earl of Ulster in his own right, or just jure uxoris?

Just jure uxoris. Lionel's daughter Philippa was Countess of Ulster at the time of his death.
 
Clarence could marry Eleanor de Bohun. (c. 1366) She was the co-heiress of her father Humphrey de Bohun, 7th Earl of Hertford.

Well here's a more interesting question: What would happen with the War of the Roses? I assume having a male her presumptive instead of a female wouldn't make Richard II treat the future Henry IV any better, so would having a more direct heir make Henry less successful with over throwing Richard? Also with the war of the roses, the House of York's claim was through the female line, while the new House of Clarence's would be through the male line, so maybe an earlier war?
 
Well here's a more interesting question: What would happen with the War of the Roses? I assume having a male her presumptive instead of a female wouldn't make Richard II treat the future Henry IV any better, so would having a more direct heir make Henry less successful with over throwing Richard? Also with the war of the roses, the House of York's claim was through the female line, while the new House of Clarence's would be through the male line, so maybe an earlier war?

The heir presumptive OTL was Lionel's grandson (or great grandson) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Mortimer,_4th_Earl_of_March or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Mortimer,_5th_Earl_of_March

Either way, Henry got his way by being in place to force the issue - here, he's not, unless Clarence waives his claim or is dead.

And with a POD this far back, Henry VI* is likely to be different - which makes a big impact on the whole mess.
 
The heir presumptive OTL was Lionel's grandson (or great grandson) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Mortimer,_4th_Earl_of_March or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Mortimer,_5th_Earl_of_March

Either way, Henry got his way by being in place to force the issue - here, he's not, unless Clarence waives his claim or is dead.

And with a POD this far back, Henry VI* is likely to be different - which makes a big impact on the whole mess.

So we could see the Plantagenet last much longer than OTL. I wonder what a house of Clarence would mean for the hundred years war?
 
So we could see the Plantagenet last much longer than OTL. I wonder what a house of Clarence would mean for the hundred years war?

We could, although by 1485 the butterflies will be pretty substantial in terms of who is in place to do what Henry Tudor did, if anyone.

I'm counting York and Lancaster as cadet branches of the Plantagents, there.
 
Top