In conjunction with the Revie stays at Leeds thread, how would this have turned out?
I think one major factor for Clough would have been to remove Billy Bremner as soon as possible. There was clear needle between Giles and Bremner as each saw themselves as the natural successor to Revie (as in the other TL). Clough clearly saw McGovern as a natural replacement for Bremner.
If he stays at Leeds, Clough might try to exploit the Giles-Bremner divide by taking Giles' side, giving him more coaching to do and involving him more in team matters. I think Giles was the more pragmatic, and less hot-headed of the two, and he might have been able to work with Clough, and been a bridge to the likes of McQueen and Jordan who were coming up. Obviously, some players would have sided with Bremner, but I think Bremner would leave at some point late 74/early 75, possibly to a bigger club than Hull... maybe even to Man United with Docherty? That side needed an 'old head' to help it win honours... so they could have won the 76 FA Cup at least with Bremner in midfield, and might even have gone closer in the title race.
Duncan McKenzie would have a bigger role in the subsequent history of Leeds, meanwhile, and possibly McQueen and Jordan - seeing that there was a chance of creating history of their own, and not just the fag-end of the Revie years - might stay, thus affecting Dave Sexton's Manchester United, who, without those two, would not have reached the 79 Cup Final and might even have been fighting relegation battles again during the late 70s. Docherty was never the type of manager to create dynasties, so assuming Mary Brown still happens, their decline under Sexton may be hastened if he can't get those players he wants.
I think Trevor Francis would have joined Leeds fairly soon, possibly 76 or 77... there would have been none of the hype and hullabaloo surrounding the 'Million Pound Transfer', so without the pressure that seemed to crush down on him like a vice, he might have fulifilled more of his potential.
I wonder where this would have left Peter Taylor? If there was a Clough-Giles partnership, he would have been left casting around without a job after leaving Brighton. So he would probably have gone to Derby in early 77, to take the job Clough turned down. I suspect he couldn't have done much to change Derby's decline, though he wouldn't have caused the absolute chaos that Docherty left.
I suspect that, with the situation still in considerable flux, although Leeds would have comfortably avoided relegation in 74-5, I don't think they would have got past Barcelona in the semis of the European Cup. And if Barca had won the trophy that year, maybe a Dutch-orientated dynasty would have started there 15 years early, and they would have been a major factor in the subsequent seasons that, in OTL, were dominated by Liverpool and Forest.
Of course, with Clough at Leeds, the Forest European Cups never happen, so we wonder if Clough can rebuild LUFC quickly enough to win the title in 77-78, and challenge again for the European Cup the following year?
Any thoughts?
I think one major factor for Clough would have been to remove Billy Bremner as soon as possible. There was clear needle between Giles and Bremner as each saw themselves as the natural successor to Revie (as in the other TL). Clough clearly saw McGovern as a natural replacement for Bremner.
If he stays at Leeds, Clough might try to exploit the Giles-Bremner divide by taking Giles' side, giving him more coaching to do and involving him more in team matters. I think Giles was the more pragmatic, and less hot-headed of the two, and he might have been able to work with Clough, and been a bridge to the likes of McQueen and Jordan who were coming up. Obviously, some players would have sided with Bremner, but I think Bremner would leave at some point late 74/early 75, possibly to a bigger club than Hull... maybe even to Man United with Docherty? That side needed an 'old head' to help it win honours... so they could have won the 76 FA Cup at least with Bremner in midfield, and might even have gone closer in the title race.
Duncan McKenzie would have a bigger role in the subsequent history of Leeds, meanwhile, and possibly McQueen and Jordan - seeing that there was a chance of creating history of their own, and not just the fag-end of the Revie years - might stay, thus affecting Dave Sexton's Manchester United, who, without those two, would not have reached the 79 Cup Final and might even have been fighting relegation battles again during the late 70s. Docherty was never the type of manager to create dynasties, so assuming Mary Brown still happens, their decline under Sexton may be hastened if he can't get those players he wants.
I think Trevor Francis would have joined Leeds fairly soon, possibly 76 or 77... there would have been none of the hype and hullabaloo surrounding the 'Million Pound Transfer', so without the pressure that seemed to crush down on him like a vice, he might have fulifilled more of his potential.
I wonder where this would have left Peter Taylor? If there was a Clough-Giles partnership, he would have been left casting around without a job after leaving Brighton. So he would probably have gone to Derby in early 77, to take the job Clough turned down. I suspect he couldn't have done much to change Derby's decline, though he wouldn't have caused the absolute chaos that Docherty left.
I suspect that, with the situation still in considerable flux, although Leeds would have comfortably avoided relegation in 74-5, I don't think they would have got past Barcelona in the semis of the European Cup. And if Barca had won the trophy that year, maybe a Dutch-orientated dynasty would have started there 15 years early, and they would have been a major factor in the subsequent seasons that, in OTL, were dominated by Liverpool and Forest.
Of course, with Clough at Leeds, the Forest European Cups never happen, so we wonder if Clough can rebuild LUFC quickly enough to win the title in 77-78, and challenge again for the European Cup the following year?
Any thoughts?
Last edited: