WI Lee Atwater lives?

Karl Rove's mentor and predecessor died of brain cancer in 1990. If he'd lived, Bush Sr. would probably have been re-elected. So what if Atwater lives? How would the second Bush term turn out? Presumably a Dem gets elected in '96, and perhaps Bush Jr. never becomes POTUS. So who would be the Dem POTUS 1997-2005 and the GOP one 2005-present?
 
Does he not get the brain cancer in the first place, or does he go into remission?

The latter scenario would be interesting, as the cancer prompted him to re-examine his life, convert to Catholicism, and apologize to all the people who'd been victims of his harsh campaign tactics all the way back to the 1950s.

He might think God has given him a second chance and try to do something. If that something means spending more time with family, then he might not have a major historical impact, but if he goes back to campaigning and does it in more ethical fashion, he might affect elections in a certain way.
 
No, he never gets it in the first place. I think he'd try to Swiftboat Clinton on the draft issue and the hanky-panky such as Flowers et al. That would be second only to Karl's "black baby" gig in SC.
 
No, he never gets it in the first place. I think he'd try to Swiftboat Clinton on the draft issue and the hanky-panky such as Flowers et al. That would be second only to Karl's "black baby" gig in SC.

Cool.

I was just wondering what kind of impact a "kinder, gentler Lee Atwater" might have.
 
That's like a "kinder, gentler" Karl or Ferdie. It ain't happening without personality-altering drugs.

It happened in OTL with his religious conversion.

He tracked down some guy he spread rumors about getting electroshock therapy IN THE 1950s to apologize for what he did. That's sincerity.
 

wormyguy

Banned
The latter scenario would be interesting, as the cancer prompted him to re-examine his life, convert to Catholicism, and apologize to all the people who'd been victims of his harsh campaign tactics all the way back to the 1950s.
He must have been an extremely precocious child, since he was born in 1951.
 
Karl Rove's mentor and predecessor died of brain cancer in 1990.
Mentor? Maybe in a sense. Predecessor? Definitely not. Rove got his start on a national level back in the Nixon administration, back when Atwater was still just sticking to South Carolina. Atwater got to a greater (official) position of power in the Republican Party than Rove, but he didn't have either the regional or national influence that Rove had. (And I say that as someone from SC...)

If Atwater were alive? the 2000 SC Campaign might have gotten even rougher than it did... though you can bet that Atwater's advice may have had something to do with the "scheduling conflicts"...*

* In the 2000 SC Republican Presidential Primary, after a lawsuit was filed alleging that the Republican Party would not open all the polling places (As the result of a Jim Crow-era law, SC does not fund Presidential primaries, instead leaving it up to the parties to do it.), approximately 1/5 of the SC polling places were planned to be closed due to scheduling conflicts and similar reasons. (It should be noted that prior public notice was given in most of those cases, though some places were unable to publish the public notice in time, and a number of polling places in Greenville County were closed without any public notice. It should also be noted that while that amount of poll closings was significant, and possibly illegal (and in fact, both McCain and Keyes protested them), it was the largest number of polling places opened in SC by any party for a Presidential primary...)
 
I think that the best counteroffensive to a Karl or Atwater is to create your own. Since the Dems haven't done that, I have limited sympathy.
 
I think that the best counteroffensive to a Karl or Atwater is to create your own. Since the Dems haven't done that, I have limited sympathy.
If some mental person decides to crap in the street and throw shit at you, the moral thing to do is not do a shit yourself and throw some back.

That is not the proper way to win. Or are you saying being more fundamentally decent deserves no sympathy?
 
I'm pretty sure he was talking about some guy alleged to have gotten electroshock therapy in the 1950s, not Atwater spreading rumors in the 1950s.

It was Tom Turnipseed, who had gotten electroshock therapy as a teenager. It's in the Wiki link I just posted.

It looks like you beat me to it.

I had thought Atwater was much older than he was and was politically active much earlier than he was.
 
If some mental person decides to crap in the street and throw shit at you, the moral thing to do is not do a shit yourself and throw some back.

That is not the proper way to win. Or are you saying being more fundamentally decent deserves no sympathy?

If the Republicans are really as evil as "progressives" think they are, then being a "Doomed Moral Victor" and not doing everything possible to win is immoral.

People who take the high ground are often destroyed by those who are more ruthless.
 
I think that the best counteroffensive to a Karl or Atwater is to create your own. Since the Dems haven't done that, I have limited sympathy.
The Dems did have a legendary dirty trickster of sorts, though what he did was different than Rove and Atwater. Dick Tuck. He's the one who welcomed Nixon to Chinatown with "Welcome President Nixon" in English and "What About the Hughes Loan?" in Chinese. He's also known for remarking after losing an election, "The people have spoken- the bastards!"

Apologizing to someone you wronged 10 years ago is not as significant as apologizing to someone you wronged 30 years ago, but he went out of his way to make the effort, for someone not well-known besides.
Actually, Atwater wrote to a number of people he had wronged, as then-recently as Michael Dukakis and as far back as a girl he played a prank on with his frat buddies at Newberry College. (This is from the excellent Atwater biography, "Bad Boy".)

If the Republicans are really as evil as "progressives" think they are, then being a "Doomed Moral Victor" and not doing everything possible to win is immoral.
People who take the high ground are often destroyed by those who are more ruthless.
Well, you can be ruthless- as long as you obey the rules. John McCain's response to Bush's negative attacks, push polls, and other bad stuff would be to point that out. After SC, he should have reminded EVERYONE about the nasty SC campaign- not to mention the poll closings and the public endorsement of Bush by the head of the SC National Guard, in violation of Federal Law.
 
Actually, Atwater wrote to a number of people he had wronged, as then-recently as Michael Dukakis and as far back as a girl he played a prank on with his frat buddies at Newberry College. (This is from the excellent Atwater biography, "Bad Boy".)

Wow. That's really going hard-core with the repentance. I'm surprised he even remembered.
 
Well, you can be ruthless- as long as you obey the rules. John McCain's response to Bush's negative attacks, push polls, and other bad stuff would be to point that out. After SC, he should have reminded EVERYONE about the nasty SC campaign- not to mention the poll closings and the public endorsement of Bush by the head of the SC National Guard, in violation of Federal Law.

Heck, McCain could have brought up Bush's rather non-impressive military service and contrast it with his own record.

The GOP called Clinton a draft-dodger--calling Bush (and definitely calling Cheney, who had outright deferments as opposed to easier service) such would be entirely legit.

That's actually telling the truth, unlike the "illegitimate black baby" BS.
 
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