WI LBJ stays Majority Leader?

Money, Money, Money, Must Be Honey...

JFK picks Symington, Nixon wins the election. Is LBJ the presumptive 1964 or 1968 Dem nominee?
LBJ's biggest problem was money. LBJ had no problem raising money while IN the White House (TFX, F-4, Bell Helicopter), but not on the outside. The question is, would the Dem nomination be a catfight or primogeniture?:confused:
 
Excuse me? LBJ was one of the wealthiest Presidents ever, likely exceeding the Kennedys in total assets. Without LBJ in the picture, if JFK wins WV and WI, then he gets the nomination. Nixon still wins in November.
 
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Excuse me? LBJ was one of the wealthiest Presidents ever, likely exceeding the Kennedys in total assets. Without LBJ in the picture, if JFK wins WV and WI, then he gets the nomination. Nixon still wins in November.
You are absolutely right! And when you're right, you're right! Uh, ofcourse, you're talking about the day he died, right? Barry Goldwater was shown a series of photos on 60 Minutes once, asking him to comment on each. It's been many years, so I only remember two. Phyllis Schafley: "That woman is so conservative she makes me look like a Socialist". LBJ: (After pausing several seconds) "Probably made more money AS President than any President since Ulysses S. Grant. And that's all I'll say about that." My understanding, RogueBeaver, is this: LBJ never had an income beyond government salaries, yet he left the White House a millionaire. Google Senator "Scoop" Jackson of Washington State and how he got his nickname.
 
Last edited:
LBJ's biggest problem was money. LBJ had no problem raising money while IN the White House (TFX, F-4, Bell Helicopter), but not on the outside. The question is, would the Dem nomination be a catfight or primogeniture?:confused:

No, no, LBJ was tapped into the spigot of Big Oil* big time, from his earliest days in the house. Brown and Root (the parent company of Haliburton) were his strongest cronies.

He funnelled huge amounts to the DCCC in the 1940 election, and was the unofficial national congressional campaign manager.

When he got to the senate the Dixiecrats from the non-oil states (which was all of them) were amazed at the cash he could raise.


*Although his first & strongest connection was with the construction/engineering industry that serviced Texas' oil sector. Same thing.
 
Excuse me? LBJ was one of the wealthiest Presidents ever, likely exceeding the Kennedys in total assets. Without LBJ in the picture, if JFK wins WV and WI, then he gets the nomination. Nixon still wins in November.

Well, I don't think any of the trustfund Kennedys were ever megarich, just as the two Bushs weren't megarich, so LBJ being wealthier than them wasn't a huge reach. I seriously doubt LBJ had huge amounts of off-the-books money like Joe Kennedy did (why would he? His family had a licence to print money with their radio and TV stations, and openly owning those stations was ballsy enough. Imagine President Nixon in office, January 1961, looking at the possibility of LBJ running against him in 1964. Then imagine what Dick might do vis-à-vis FCC appointments.)

Australia's PM Kevin Rudd is married to a woman who has something like a US $40 million fortune, I think that might be as much or more than Senator and Mrs Johnson had back in the day. By and large these people (pols) aren't in it for the money--before entering parliament Rudd was a KPMG consultant for the Chinese market, he could be worth US $100 million by now if he'd stayed in that world and worked his arse off to the same extent as he has in elected office.

Being able to funnel other peoples money to your political allies, now that is a gift that trancends personal fortune. That's why Nancy Pelosi will be US speaker for as long as her party has a congressional majority, or until she is no longer physically capable of counting heads.
 
Last edited:
I'll be damned. I'll Be DAMNED.

No, no, LBJ was tapped into the spigot of Big Oil* big time, from his earliest days in the house. Brown and Root (the parent company of Haliburton) were his strongest cronies.

He funnelled huge amounts to the DCCC in the 1940 election, and was the unofficial national congressional campaign manager.

When he got to the senate the Dixiecrats from the non-oil states (which was all of them) were amazed at the cash he could raise.


*Although his first & strongest connection was with the construction/engineering industry that serviced Texas' oil sector. Same thing.
It wasn't shadowy defense contract deals, or oil money. And Barry Goldwater was lying thru his teeth. I guess some people just have absolute blindspots for a particular person. For Truman, it was a pair of 5 star generals. For Gary Trudeau (Doonesbury) it was Henry Kissinger and George H.W. Bush.


It turns out that YES all that LBJ had was his salary, but LADYBIRD died after amassing a personal fortune of $150,000,000!:eek: She did it by finagling her inheritance of approx. $50,000 to become the Rupert Murdoch of Texas! Buying out failing radio and TV stations and turning them around. Having her husband pressure the FCC into maintaining a Ladybird monopoly in Austin didn't hurt.:D
 
It wasn't shadowy defense contract deals, or oil money. And Barry Goldwater was lying thru his teeth. I guess some people just have absolute blindspots for a particular person. For Truman, it was a pair of 5 star generals. For Gary Trudeau (Doonesbury) it was Henry Kissinger and George H.W. Bush.

I don't understand the above paragraph.

In the post you quote I was concerned with the money LBJ could channel from the Texas private sector (Big Oil related) to his allies in the Democratic Party, beginning in 1940, and the fact that this political leverage wasn't directly related to the fact he & Lady Bird were farting through silk.

This is all documented, even if none of it was carried out under what would now be considered McCain-Feingold accounting (or ethics).

It turns out that YES all that LBJ had was his salary, but LADYBIRD died after amassing a personal fortune of $150,000,000!:eek: She did it by finagling her inheritance of approx. $50,000 to become the Rupert Murdoch of Texas! Buying out failing radio and TV stations and turning them around. Having her husband pressure the FCC into maintaining a Ladybird monopoly in Austin didn't hurt.

He had sweetheart deals whereby he received great, and I mean great, investment advice from his friends the Brown brothers, and sweetheart deals in which he got fantastic advertising revenue from his stations thanks to the business of the friends of his friends.

Unethical, to be sure--unless of course we consider the ethics of the recent Citizens United case. Then it was all just an example of corporations exercising their God given rights as private citizens of the United States.

Anyway, $150 million accumulated over two generations tells me Johnson died with Mrs Rudd type money. Which isn't bad, but not exactly the same as the notorious Boss Tweed.
 
Today vs Yesterday

I don't understand the above paragraph.

In the post you quote I was concerned with the money LBJ could channel from the Texas private sector (Big Oil related) to his allies in the Democratic Party, beginning in 1940, and the fact that this political leverage wasn't directly related to the fact he & Lady Bird were farting through silk.

This is all documented, even if none of it was carried out under what would now be considered McCain-Feingold accounting (or ethics).



He had sweetheart deals whereby he received great, and I mean great, investment advice from his friends the Brown brothers, and sweetheart deals in which he got fantastic advertising revenue from his stations thanks to the business of the friends of his friends.

Unethical, to be sure--unless of course we consider the ethics of the recent Citizens United case. Then it was all just an example of corporations exercising their God given rights as private citizens of the United States.

Anyway, $150 million accumulated over two generations tells me Johnson died with Mrs Rudd type money. Which isn't bad, but not exactly the same as the notorious Boss Tweed.
I think the problem may be that by 2010 standards LBJ is doing life in ClubFed, but by the standards of the 30's thru 60's, he was simply ahead of the regulatory curve (they hadn't necessarily written the laws he was breaking yet).
 
I think the problem may be that by 2010 standards LBJ is doing life in ClubFed, but by the standards of the 30's thru 60's, he was simply ahead of the regulatory curve (they hadn't necessarily written the laws he was breaking yet).

I don't even know if that is the case with his personal finances. I don't remember either Dallek or Caro writing that the situation with the funding for the stations was illegal even by today's standards, not that either of those historians are special prosecutors. Of course he wouldn't make these investments as a sitting congressman if he were alive today, it would look terrible, but I wonder if a modern day LBJ who was a former political aide & former regional federal agency head (his jobs before running for congress) wouldn't just make similar sweetheart deals before he ran for office, making sure to divest himself of all his shares when he threw his hat into the campaign ring. George W. Bush benefitting from taxpayers building the new Texas Rangers baseball stadium is something that springs to mind. Bush made sure to sell all his shares before he ran for governor.

But that's besides the point, as what would ruin an LBJ today wouldn't be the cosy investments he made using his own money, but rather the unregulated money he received from Brown and Root from the thirties onwards.
 
I think that LBJ would have real trouble winning the nomination in 64 or 68, His record on civil rights scares away Blacks and liberals. I'd bet on Humphrey in 64.
 
His record on civil rights scares away Blacks and liberals.

It didn't seem to IOTL, in which LBJ rode to the White House easily on the coattails of the Civil Rights movement and his accomplishments therein. While Lyndon Johnson's voting records on Civil Rights while in Congress weren't pristine, his support for Civil Rights was much greater than that of either of the Kennedy brothers or any of his predecessors within the Democratic leadership. I don't think Landslide Lyndon will have a problem courting liberals and African-American voters if he takes a strong stand in favor of Civil Rights as Majority Leader in the ATL Sixties (maybe as a way to pressure Nixon on the matter?).
 
TNF: You're forgetting that for a period in the 1950s, the Dixiecrats saw LBJ as their next leader if Dick Russell retired or died. Lyndon was the glue that held the Northern bombthrowers and the Dixiecrats together. If he goes too far left on CR, he loses credibility with the South, he's branded a traitor and loses all effectiveness as Majority Leader. Liberals never liked Johnson because of his style: a transactional (wheeler-dealer) method of governance that in their view put pragmatic success over ideological failure. There was also probably a bit of cultural snobbery involved as well.

EDIT: Humphrey, before becoming VP, frightened the hell out of conservative Democrats and the business community. But he could be nominated, and lose to Nixon. Which means a Kennedy-Johnson rematch for the Dem nomination in '68. JFK v. Rocky: even Kennedy said IOTL he'd have lost to Nelson in '60.
 
Last edited:
LBJ's effectiveness would likely be much diminished if Nixon is President, which might lead to some nasty turf wars. He might also develop a resentment of JFK and try to marginalize Kennedy as much as a two-termer can be marginalized. The Dixiecrats will have to find a way out: join the pro-CR GOP, or stick with the party that "betrayed" its historical base.
 
Last edited:
While Lyndon Johnson's voting records on Civil Rights while in Congress weren't pristine, his support for Civil Rights was much greater than that of either of the Kennedy brothers or any of his predecessors within the Democratic leadership.

What point in time are you talking about? 1957? 1960? 1964?

Just because Johnson knew how to enact Civil- and Voting-Rights (indeed, knew how to use the aftermath of JFK's death to get these bills passed through the senate) it doesn't follow that he cared more about Civil Rights than either of the Kennedys, or Truman, or even Eisenhower.

All it means was he knew how to get it done.

(FWIW I think Truman cared more about this subject than the others did, if only because he had spent so much of his adult life around poverty and social injustice and had worked for veterans' causes.)
 
Magniac: To quote LBJ: "I didn't know many Negroes when I was growing up, but I knew about Mexicans and poverty." Truman, while a courageous opponent of the Missouri KKK, lived in a Midwestern state leaning Dixie (like Indiana).
 
*Although his first & strongest connection was with the construction/engineering industry that serviced Texas' oil sector. Same thing.

Of course, those of us who LIVE down here know just what side of the oil business you're talking about when you say "Brown & Root" :) The sheer variety of oil businesses is quite large. Obviously most everyone has heard of the giants like Exxon or Chevron, but how many know about Schlumberger (to take one particularly prominent example)?
 
Magniac: To quote LBJ: "I didn't know many Negroes when I was growing up, but I knew about Mexicans and poverty." Truman, while a courageous opponent of the Missouri KKK, lived in a Midwestern state leaning Dixie (like Indiana).

True, but I did say adult life.

LBJ's careers as a teacher and federal welfare bureaucrat were pretty truncated, Truman was working around poor people until he went to the senate (and he took a special interest in the plight of black veterans in the forties because of his own experiences).

Johnson escaped all that much earlier.
 
Last edited:
Of course, those of us who LIVE down here know just what side of the oil business you're talking about when you say "Brown & Root" :) The sheer variety of oil businesses is quite large. Obviously most everyone has heard of the giants like Exxon or Chevron, but how many know about Schlumberger (to take one particularly prominent example)?

In 2010 I bet Halliburton dreams of having the public image Exxon does, thanks to the recent unpleasantness (the old Brown and Root is now part of the Halliburton empire).
 
In 2010 I bet Halliburton dreams of having the public image Exxon does, thanks to the recent unpleasantness (the old Brown and Root is now part of the Halliburton empire).

Oh sure :D But most people know Halliburton as the home of Dick Cheney and corrupt government contractors, not as a major oil-field support business. I bet they wish they were as unknown as, oh, any number of other companies around here.
 
Top