WI: Larger US Muslim Population?

Somewhere on this site I recall reading an off hand comment about Balkan Muslims expelled by Christian nationalists resettling in the United States rather than the Ottoman Empire. Obviously all of them would be quite implausible, but what if some (perhaps several thousand or tens of thousands) chose to seek passage to America? (Though I am unsure of whether the refugees would have the means to emigrate or not.)
I imagine that the most immediate consequences would be a panic similar to those over Catholic immigrants but on a much smaller scale, like limited to where they settle. In the long term though, might the US grow more tolerant?

Additionally, I've read that a fairly substantial number of slaves imported before the abolition of the slave trade were Muslims. However, it would appear they were not very successful in maintaining their religion through the generations. What conditions, if any, could be used to preserve Islam in the South?
 
My initial suspicion is that they would settle in a number of areas, rather than one area, and would over time melt into the community, with most of their numbers converting in the same way that Christians in the Ottoman Empire tended to convert en masse to Islam, though slowly over the course of generations. Particularly with absolutely zero Islamic leadership structure in the US (and I don't see a load of refugees setting one up very readily) their priesthood would be lacking and they would eventually lose numbers. I don't think they would be followed by many other Muslims either, so their numbers are probably going to diminish rather than increase.

Just my initial suspicions, of course.
 

MrP

Banned
A year or two ago we did have a TL about a greater number of Muslims in America. I can't recall any key names from it, so searching is probably a hopeless exercise, but it definitely existed.

EDIT: Avicenna's name popped up from my memory. Here's the TL.
 
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Were clergy not part of the populations of refugees? Perhaps my understanding of Islamic theology is lacking more than I thought.
And given that the ethnic cleansing happened every decade or so as the Ottomans shrunk, perhaps a semi-regular influx of new Balkan Muslims would help sustain the population.
 
Were clergy not part of the populations of refugees? Perhaps my understanding of Islamic theology is lacking more than I thought.
And given that the ethnic cleansing happened every decade or so as the Ottomans shrunk, perhaps a semi-regular influx of new Balkan Muslims would help sustain the population.

Clergy only last until they die. A series of disparate communities of a few hundred to a couple of thousand max in any one area are going to find it hard to train up decent successors. After three or four generations, they may fail to raise any competent successors at all, especially if a large chunk of the community is dropping off and being Christianised, not attending the Mosques, or even converting etc.

Also, given the way that American culture (especially down south) was about black people, and the way that Muslims were looked down upon during the Barbary War and such, they may find that if not actually persecuted or penalised, that local government officials move to ensure their communities are dispersed further, and that they face levels of intolerance among the locals which makes practising their own religion in peace very hard. I'm not saying that Muslim communities are doomed to fail, but I find it hard to see them becoming a cherished aspect of American culture, nor one that leads to a very tolerant America. You'd probably need hundreds of thousands of Muslims in America from the very start for that to happen, which I think is pretty much implausible, and even then it's a 50-50 coin toss over whether that leads to understanding and tolerance or downright street clashes and riots.
 
Also, given the way that American culture (especially down south) was about black people, and the way that Muslims were looked down upon during the Barbary War and such, they may find that if not actually persecuted or penalised, that local government officials move to ensure their communities are dispersed further, and that they face levels of intolerance among the locals which makes practising their own religion in peace very hard. I'm not saying that Muslim communities are doomed to fail, but I find it hard to see them becoming a cherished aspect of American culture, nor one that leads to a very tolerant America. You'd probably need hundreds of thousands of Muslims in America from the very start for that to happen, which I think is pretty much implausible, and even then it's a 50-50 coin toss over whether that leads to understanding and tolerance or downright street clashes and riots.
American attitudes towards different races varied according to what was percieved as a 'threat' to the WASP majority. In the West, the Chinese were reviled while black people were practically a curiousity. In the South, Blacks were reviled while Chinese immigration was encouraged (with little success). It all depends on where a group was at any one time.

Likewise with various Muslim populations. Balkan Muslims, if memory serves, tended to immigrate to the Northern states moreso than the south-- the 19th century immigrants tended to be rural (Bosniaks in North Dakota, fr'ex), whereas 20th century Muslims tended to become more and more urban (Lebanese Muslims in Detroit). What the WASP reaction to them is depends as much on where they move as to where they're from. I wager there'd be less hostility to homesteaders and pioneering families than there'd be for urban influxes.
 
]Also, given the way that American culture (especially down south) was about black people, and the way that Muslims were looked down upon during the Barbary War and such, they may find that if not actually persecuted or penalised, that local government officials move to ensure their communities are dispersed further, and that they face levels of intolerance among the locals which makes practising their own religion in peace very hard.

I wasn't terribly optimistic that a black Muslim population could survive long term in the South, but it seemed worth an ask. A much earlier POD would be necessary for that I suppose.

I'm not saying that Muslim communities are doomed to fail, but I find it hard to see them becoming a cherished aspect of American culture, nor one that leads to a very tolerant America. You'd probably need hundreds of thousands of Muslims in America from the very start for that to happen, which I think is pretty much implausible, and even then it's a 50-50 coin toss over whether that leads to understanding and tolerance or downright street clashes and riots.

To clarify, by no means did I expect these hypothetical Muslims to become the New Irish of the American immigrant population. More like the Nordic peoples in Minnesota and the like. And by "more tolerant" I meant compared to modern OTL, where they have a tendency to be the objects of immediate suspicion or outright persecution. Though I suppose that could be blamed on 9/11 and fearmongering, which would likely have no comparable event in an ATL. That is, in this ATL at 2011 they'd be treated more like our Jews than our Muslims. Different, but not scary.
 
To clarify, by no means did I expect these hypothetical Muslims to become the New Irish of the American immigrant population. More like the Nordic peoples in Minnesota and the like. And by "more tolerant" I meant compared to modern OTL, where they have a tendency to be the objects of immediate suspicion or outright persecution. Though I suppose that could be blamed on 9/11 and fearmongering, which would likely have no comparable event in an ATL. That is, in this ATL at 2011 they'd be treated more like our Jews than our Muslims. Different, but not scary.

Fair enough, but I'm still not convinced it could create a perceptible change in attitude at all. At best, I think you'd have a historian on American TV around the time of the US interventions in the Middle East talking about his new book on a time in US history when a community of Muslims emigrated to the US early in its history and became part of the woodwork before losing their identity and becoming a forgotten tale of American history, and how this event can be compared and contrasted to current events.
 
Some very interesting tidbits of OTL information here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

In 1790, the South Carolina legislative body granted special legal status to a community of Moroccans.

Abdu-l-Rahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori (a.k.a. Abdul-Rahman) was a prince from West Africa who was made a slave in the United States.

In 1826, Abd al-Rahman Ibrahim wrote a letter to his relatives in Africa. A local newspaperman, Andrew Marschalk, who was originally from New York, sent a copy to Senator Thomas Reed in Washington, who forwarded it to the U.S. Consulate in Morocco. Since Abdal-Rhaman Ibrahim wrote in Arabic, Marschalk and the U.S. government assumed that he was a Moor. After the Sultan of Morocco Abderrahmane read the letter, he asked President Adams and Secretary of State Henry Clay to release Abd al-Rahman Ibrahim. In 1828, Thomas Foster agreed to the release of Ibrahim, without payment, with the stipulation that Ibrahim return to Africa and not live as a free man in America.


Small-scale migration to the U.S. by Muslims began in 1840, with the arrival of Yemenites and Turks,[41] and lasted until World War I.

Ross, North Dakota is the site of the first documented mosque and Muslim Cemetery, but it was abandoned and later torn down in the mid 1970s. A new mosque was built in its place in 2005.[37]

Ross is a city in Mountrail County, North Dakota in the United States. The population was 97 at the 2010 census. Ross was founded in 1902 and is the site of the first, established mosque in the United States.
  • 1906 Bosnian Muslims in Chicago, Illinois, started the Džemijetul Hajrije (Jamaat al-Hajrije) (The Benevolent Society; a social service organization devoted to Bosnian Muslims). This is the longest lasting incorporated Muslim community in the United States.
1934 The first building built specifically to be a mosque is established in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
1945 A mosque existed in Dearborn, Michigan, home to the largest Arab-American population in the U.S.

and by 1952, there were over 20 mosques

Historically, Muslim Americans tended to support the Republican Party.



I am amazed at Ross being the first Mosque as it is in the middle of the continent (actually, Rugby, ND is).

The Southern Yemenite population is most curious. Where they
because of trading and poor contitions locally? A large population to
this day in Niagra Falls/Buffalo NY.

If there was substantial immigration at one place, then a small,
quiet community would have come about. Note the slave prince in
the above. Soon as he moved back, as well as his son, they
died of disease. The US is a good place to become comfortable in,
and it is unlikely much waves would have had been made, especially
considering the erratic history of Muslims during the TL, not the
most fortunate period of the group (you and I would have been
glad to escape lower Italy in 850, probably). Dark age of sorts.

Also, the average southern person was skeptical of differing persons,
maybe because of the higher indentured servant rate and patronage
systems. But enough high breed men, especially in Virginia, existed
to defend, that a colony of size might have been made in the
peidmont region. Not many people came from South Eastern
Europe during the first half of US history, though.
 
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