WI: Larger Communist Bloc?

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nbcman

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When Germany surrendered in may 1945, they still occupied southern Norway, Denmark, northern Yugoslavia, parts of Italy, Austria, Czechia, parts of the Netherlands and Kurland.
As we know in OTL, eastern Austria, Yugoslavia, Czechia and Kurland were liberated by the soviets after the Reich surrendered. Now they could have pushed on to liberate all of Norway and Denmark (they allready controlled Finmark and Mecklenburg), and also all of Austria and parts of northern Italy. Logisticly this is completely plausible, but they didn't in OTL, not to piss the WAllies off. What of they did?

Alternatively, what if D-Day fails, or the soviets do better early on? The soviets could easily take over all of Germany, all of eastern europe, Norway and Denmark. Maybe even the Benelux and (parts of) France and Italy.

In the cold war, you may have no sino-soviet split, the DPRK wins the korean war, etc.

The Germans had already surrendered in Italy over a week before the main German surrender so that is out. The Germans had also surrendered in northwest Germany, Netherlands and Denmark before the main German surrender plus the British 8th Army was already east of Hamburg and had reached the Baltic so the Soviets would have to pass through their army to advance further. Basically, the only areas that the Soviets could reach that weren't already occupied were the areas that they occupied IOTL. Maybe the Soviets could have landed troops in Denmark on the islands by sea or by air and advance more in northern Norway. But that's it. Unless you want to propose the Soviets advance on other German occupied areas such as the Channel Islands or the French ports?
 
Alternatively, what if D-Day fails, or the soviets do better early on? The soviets could easily take over all of Germany, all of eastern europe, Norway and Denmark. Maybe even the Benelux and (parts of) France and Italy.

No, the Soviets couldn't do that well. Keep in mind that they've been doing most of the fighting against Germany (and most of the dying), are a long way from their logistics base even at Berlin, never mind Paris, will always face a Britain that does not want them getting too close and, if they mulch Germany, it's much easier for Britain and the US to land troops in France.

Really the furthest the Soviets could reach is the Rhine.

I also can't really see them taking all of Norway, though they did take Finnmark from occupied Norway - they gave it to Norway with alacrity.

What is possible is to see the Soviets take more of Germany, all of Austria, Northern Italy, Greece and Denmark. More of Germany isn't too interesting, but the rest could really change the cold war.

A Soviet aligned Denmark or Greece would, I think, be especially interesting.

fasquardon
 
No, the Soviets couldn't do that well. Keep in mind that they've been doing most of the fighting against Germany (and most of the dying), are a long way from their logistics base even at Berlin, never mind Paris, will always face a Britain that does not want them getting too close and, if they mulch Germany, it's much easier for Britain and the US to land troops in France.

Really the furthest the Soviets could reach is the Rhine.

I also can't really see them taking all of Norway, though they did take Finnmark from occupied Norway - they gave it to Norway with alacrity.

What is possible is to see the Soviets take more of Germany, all of Austria, Northern Italy, Greece and Denmark. More of Germany isn't too interesting, but the rest could really change the cold war.

A Soviet aligned Denmark or Greece would, I think, be especially interesting.

fasquardon

The Red Army had allmost 13 million active soldiers in 1945. And about the soviet supply situation, the US managed to supply a force over the Atlantic. Of course the situation was much different, with the eastern european infrastructure being badly damaged by the war, and the Red Army being way larger than the american one. But still, other countries had far supply lines, aswell and managed to do it. And also eastern european ressources can be used to fuel the soviet war machine.

And as I said, after D-Day failed, the allies will be hesitant to launch another invasion of northern France (even if the preparation would only take around 3 months). The germans won't withdraw forces from France, as the threat of another invasion from the north, or an advance from Italy to the south would open another front in the west. And the nazis knew, that if another front waa opened, they wouls only die faster than they would anyway.

The most likely thing is, that the allies go for the safe bet and advance through Italy (another failed landing would have desastrous consequences), and liberate France from the south. Meanwhile the soviets are in Poland and operation Bagration is going to crush army group north, breaking the german lines. The allies and soviets would likely meet somewhere in north eastern France.
 
Has anyone ever considered how possible a Malayan Communist victory over the British was? That could get rather interesting if it were possible.
Not very plausible I understand. Communist support was mainly, if not exclusively, from the minority Chinese population rather than the Malay majority. Their OTL prolonged distraction and tying down of scarce British resources was probably the best they could have hoped to accomplish.
 
North Italy: Make the Monarchy referendum go the way of the monarchy, and that plus a communist majority vote makes the north secede, or the north secede just after the referendum and goes communist.

Also i guess that the best way would have been a sudden german collapse during barbarossa, leading to a soviet counter attack that will invade most of Europe. Britain is too weak to do anything more than maybe land in a France that will likely have a civil war. The USSR would have a field day.
 

Lusitania

Donor
I wonder if a different WWII where the eastern front holds out longer but western front goes as iOTL. The end of war sees western forces take Berlin and all of iOTL Germany and meet soviet troops along iOTL Germany -Poland border. With Czech part also captured along Austria.
 
Not very plausible I understand. Communist support was mainly, if not exclusively, from the minority Chinese population rather than the Malay majority. Their OTL prolonged distraction and tying down of scarce British resources was probably the best they could have hoped to accomplish.

And the Chinese minority were concentrated in cities scattered through Malaysia?

One of the problems I have with imagining the Communists winning here is there's no good foreign patron. In Vietnam, first Nationalist, the Communist China made victory possible for the Communists. In Greece, the Communists had support from Yugoslavia, until the Tito-Stalin split. Who could support the Malay Communists? I can't think of any good candidates.

The Red Army had allmost 13 million active soldiers in 1945. And about the soviet supply situation, the US managed to supply a force over the Atlantic. Of course the situation was much different, with the eastern european infrastructure being badly damaged by the war, and the Red Army being way larger than the american one. But still, other countries had far supply lines, aswell and managed to do it. And also eastern european ressources can be used to fuel the soviet war machine.

But consider, the US spent most of WW2 preparing the logistical machinery to attack Western Europe. And they started some years before Hitler declared war on them. The Soviets have had to spend much of their resources just fighting to stay alive and then fighting to expel the invader. And the Soviets pushed far and fast at the end of WW2 - their last campaigns were some of the bloodiest for them since 1941. Maybe if D-day fails and the Soviets go slower, they can husband their resources to go further. But... They don't have the huge logistical machinery of the US, they've got alot of tired men, they've lost millions already and the British and Americans aren't likely to want them staying in France and the low countries (not to mention the Free French, Free Dutch and Free Belgians).

fasquardon
 
I would love to see an Eastren bloc comprising of the USSR, Bulgaria, Finland, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Greece, Poland, Italy, East Germany, Albania, Sweden, Turkey, Checkoslovakia, East Austria, Cyprus, Mongolia, China, North Korea, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Maldives, Thailand, Kuwait, Burma, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Iraq, Iran, Bhutan, and Syria. What a way to terrify the West!
 
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