WI : Lancastrian survival in 1471

Anne Neville consume her marriage with Edward of Westminster. She is pregnant in April 1471, and give birth a son, in mid January or early February 1472. George of Clarence hide her pregnancy, while waiting to find a solution. He may rally Warwick's supporters then put the boy on the throne to rule through him. This plot could lead to his execution after a humiliating campaign in France in 1475.
In this scenario, Gloucester is already married and has a son. Edward prefers to entrust the education of the grand-son of Henry VI to his brother, Richard.
Queen Margaret of Anjou wants to get back her grand-son.
For his part, Richard of Gloucester became governor of the North. What problem is it likely to come (for men of North and his allegiances for Warwick)?
I had the idea of marrying Anne Neville to the Duke of Buckingham (in this scenario, it’s not married to Katherine Woodville). Gloucester could share some of his land in the South against the castles of Middleham, Sheriff Hutton and Pontefract. Then he worked to win the hearts of the people.
I have no doubt that the work will not be easy.

Do you have any comments?
 
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To whom is Gloucester [already] married instead, and why?
Why isn't Buckingham married to Katherine Woodville?

(No, you can't "simplify" matters by saying that Richard was married to Katherine Woodville. Wouldn't have happened.)
 
Lord Thomas Fitzgerald is earl of Desmond, and viceroy of Ireland since 1463. He is the most influential man in Ireland. His ancestor, Gerald was born at Windsor Castle, during a reign of William I the Conqueror. His son, Maurice Fitzgerald participated in the Norman invasion of Ireland, in 1169, and his grandson, Thomas founded house of Fitzgerald in Desmond, by his O'Brien's wife.
Thomas had two daughters, Catherine and Ellen, but her date of birth and death are unknown. I choose Catherine because some genealogy's website said that her date of birth would probability be in 1455. She married Finghin MacCarthy Reagh, date is unknown too.
 
If his daughter is marrying into the English royal family then he probably expects an English earldom for himself as part of the deal: After all the Earls of Ormond, who were amongst the Earls of Desmonds' traditional rivals, had already had one (Wiltshire) although that might have been lost at this point (I'd need to check) because of their support for Lancaster...
And what lands does Richard himself receive to support his ducal dignity properly? IOTL he was landless until the estates of Warwick (& Warwick's wife) were shared out after the brothers married Isobel and Anne.
 
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In OTL, during the reign of Henry VI, the Butler lived in England. Desmond annexed Butler's lands along the border of his earldom.
After Lancastrian defeat at Towton, in 1461, James Butler was beheaded at Newcastle. At Westminster, the statues made by Edward had sentenced Butler for high treason and his peerages were declared forfeit. John Butler was determined to take up the earldom and defend his lands. In this, he was aided by his nephew, Edmund MacRichard Butler, so named due to his native Irish mother (a perfect example of the flagrant disregard for the Statutes of Kilkenny). They landed near Waterford in 1462 with a force of English soldiers and quickly retook Waterford, capturing Gerald, Lord of Decies and youngest brother of Desmond, in the process. The Fitzgerald of Desmond fought against the Butler of Kilkenny at Piltown.
In November 1485, Henry VII restored the earldom of Ormond to his younger brother, John Butler, the sixth earl.

To marry his daughter to Gloucester, Thomas Fitzgerald can claim the earldom of Ormond because he shares the affiliation with Butler; he is a grandson of the 2nd earl of Ormond, by his mother Eleanor Butler who was a second child of Ormond. James Butler, earl of Ormond is the great-grandson of the 2nd Earl of Ormond.
 
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I'm not sure that his claim on Ormonde would actually have been good enough, although admittedly I haven't looked at the family trees in detail yet. However even if he did claim it the 'clannish' nature of Irish society in those days would probably have made holding it against the surviving Butlers rather tricky. An earldom in England (which would also boost his prestige amonsg the English), that he could use it as a source of extra troops & resources for his campaigns in Ireland, would almost certainly be more useful to him.
Anyway, although that additional land might be nice (if he can hold it) and there's arguably some prestige to be gained from becoming father-in-law to a brother of the King, what Thomas really needs most is reliable allies... and with the King's power in Ireland really rather weak outside of the 'Pale' around Dublin, and with you apparently not giving wide English estates to Richard (who would be expected to help his father-in-law, of course), marrying the daughter off to the Irish nobleman whom she wed IOTL is pretty certainly a better deal for Thomas.
And remember that Edward can't actually marry-off Richard without Richard's own consent: So, if he's not being granted generous estates in England (and granted them with security against the 'right of resumption'), what is in this deal for Richard? Going by IOTL he isn't in a desperate hurry to wed, Thomas's daughter isn't an "heiress" as you said (because she has brothers who will inherit their father's lands) so there's no estates for him to gain in that way, and to be honest -- as the English of the time would have seen things -- she's at least halfway to being a barbarian.... so this match would actually be a significant step downwards in dignity for Richard.
 
IMHO if Richard is going to be the Governor of the North, he needs lands in the North.

I've forgotten most of what I knew, but how are the Percies in this scenario?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Desmond is " not barbarian "

On 27th December 1464 St. Mary's was made a Collegiate Church, with the foundation of Our Lady's College of Yoghill by Thomas FitzGerald, 7th Earl of Desmond (proprietor of Youghal and Lord Deputy of Ireland), for the purpose of training seminarians. It was served by a Warden and Clerks consisting of eight Fellows and eight choristers.

Both Thomas and his cousin Thomas Earl of Desmond were reasonable and civilized men and ruled Ireland patriotically. They were joint leaders of the patriot and home rule party, The Earl of Desmond attempted to found a university at Drogheda (first in Ireland - Trinity College, Dublin, was founded in 1592) but failed because, in 1468, he was beheaded by Earl of Worcester.
 
Fair enough, but in English eyes things were seen differently. Hindsight is golden and our values are very different to those current back then.
 
So, if he's not being granted generous estates in England (and granted them with security against the 'right of resumption'), what is in this deal for Richard?

By King Henry I's decision, Desmond's ancestors Were holding in chief of lands in Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex, Surrey, Hampshire and, for him and his heirs. He aussi Held Winchfield in Hampshire from Chertsey Abbey and a royal manor and some woodlands at Windsor. He Held, too, Among Other manors, Stanwell in Middlesex, and a royal manor and some woodlands at Windsor.
Granted he was Moulsford, Berkshire and Held land in Pembrokeshire.
So, Desmond has actually land in England he can give his daughter as a dowry.
 
I'm not sure that his claim on Ormonde would actually have been good enough, although admittedly I haven't looked at the family trees in detail yet. However even if he did claim it the 'clannish' nature of Irish society in those days would probably have made holding it against the surviving Butlers rather tricky.

James Butler, Earl of Wiltshire and Ormond in Ireland, a staunch Lancastrian, fought for Lancaster at the battles of Mortimers Cross and Towton, both 1461, and was beheaded and attained for doing so. His two brothers, John and Thomas, were also attained both in England and Ireland.
Corruption of blood is one of the consequences of attainder. The descendants of an attainted person could not inherit either from the attainted criminal (whose property had been forfeited on conviction) or from their other relatives through the criminal. For example, if a son is executed for a crime leaving innocent grandsons as orphans, and the innocent grandfather has other children besides the criminal, the property of the criminal is forfeited to the crown. But when the grandfather dies, the property of the grandfather will not be seized by the Crown or pass to the grandchildren: it passes to the other children of the grandfather.
In this way, all of Butler are are excluded from the succession of the Earldom of Ormond.
 
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