Ooh lovely new chapter, glad to see Mary is making matches that will be good for both her nation and children!
WI: Lady Mary Tudor married Philip of Bavaria
- Thread starter Violet Rose Lily
- Start date
English monarchs getting electorship over a hundred years earlier from OTL, and in a time when it actually mattered instead of just a Habsburg rubber stamp is actually interesting tbh. England-Pfalz personal union ftw
I hope you saw the other new chapter as I think I posted it at the time time as your response. But yes Mary is making some dynastic matches.
You are very kind to respond to them all.
I thought it would be interesting for that exact reason. It would certinally give the Hapsburg motives to keep good relations with England.
Let them get the personal union (and then marry one of their kids off to Philip's and get Spain/Burgundy/the Netherlands that way). It'll be fun to see how they manage.
Will their kid also pull a Frederick V on us 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Bohemia is technically still an elective monarchy tho lmao. Mary's religious tolerance might be giving the German princes ""ideas""
1556-1559
Not long after Philip went to Germany, his daughter, Katherine went to Spain. The negotiations of the marriage had gone rather quickly as King Philip was eager for a fertile young wife as he had only one son whose mental health was questionable. Katherine, now Catalina, reminded many of her deceased grandmother, Katherine of Aragon in appearance.
Catalina and Felipe of Spain met in the summer of 1556. Neither were particularly impressed by the other. Catalina found her husband to be a "cold fish". She particularly did not like how he had refused to allow Carlos to attend their wedding feast even going as so far to comment on it publicly. Felipe found his wife to be opinionated, fierce, and ill-behaved. Not even a month after the wedding, Philip returned to fighting the French, leaving his new wife to bound with his son.
Meanwhile Philip made a stop in Vienna to meet with the new Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand. While he was there, he arranged the marriage between his second daughter Elizabeth and Archduke Charles [1]. The two men got along quite well, being of similar age. They both agreed that the Ottomans were the biggest threat with Philip promising to do his best to get the Lutheran princes of Germany to put aside their differences with the Catholic princes in order to prevent the Turks from coming any further into Europe. Acting as his wife's envoy, Philip signed the Treaty of Vienna, making an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire.
Over in England, Mary was deliberating whether or not to join the war against France. Her councilors, including her secretary William Cecil [2] insisted that they had no personal stake in a war that looked like Spain was loosing. Not to mention, the Prince of Wales was currently engaged to Princess Elizabeth whose father was promising a large dowry no other Catholic princess could match.
Another point was she still needed to settle her father's debts (not to mention scrounge up money for three more dowries), and the tension between the Protestants and the Catholics was still contentious. Mary would later admit in her memoirs that she feared that Philip would see England's neutral stance as a betrayal and take it out on her daughter much like King Henry had often blamed King Fernando and Emperor Charles "betrayals" as the fault of Queen Katherine. But in the end she acquiesced [3] and instead focused on refiling England's coffers.
In more personal matters, Mary continued to search Italy for her third daughter and namesake. She decided on Guglielmo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua, [4] a respectful dukedom, but not one who would demand a too large of a dowry. Out of her six children, let left Joan and Edward unattached. There was also the matter of her sister. Elizabeth was now a woman of over twenty years. She was in her prime and many monarchs of the Lutheran faith were eager to seek her hand. However, Elizabeth had no intention of wedding. Although, Philip's devotion to her sister had gone a long way to repairing how she viewed marriage, she still had a very practical reason not to marry: she did not wish to be used against her sister. She made it clear she had no wish to wed and Mary accepted that, mostly because she felt Philip and Elizabeth were the only two people she felt she could trust completely.
Prince Philip of Wales left Hatfield shortly after turning ten, being sent to Ludlow just like his Great-Uncle Arthur. His mother ensured he had the top education, encouraging him to be fluent in several languages including French, Latin, German, and Spanish. The Duke of Somerset sent a tutor from Palatine to better prepare him to rule over the electorship.
Otto Henry's death in 1559 meant Philip had to extend his already long stay in Germany. Mary would write that despite the letters they sent each other constantly, it was torturous to spend nearly five years apart. However, Philip felt he needed to handle matters in person. "The distance between us is wide, my darling, but you are here in spirit and my heart. And that feeling keeps me warm during the long winter," he wrote to her in one his letters.
Once he was sure that everything was settled, the Duke of Somerset returned to England. He was received warmly by his loving wife. Not so warmly by his sister-in-law. Although, the hot-tempered princess had enough etiquette not to upbraid her brother in public, it was known by those close to the "power trio" that she upbraided him in private, admonishing him for leaving her poor sister alone, breaking her heart, sending her into depression that was hidden by a fragile mask.
Mary for her part did not hold Philip's absence against him. She was far too busy making up for lost time, going on a second honeymoon while Elizabeth acted as regent. On the heels of planning the wedding of their daughter and Archduke Charles, Mary and Philip received surprising and joyous news from Spain. It seemed that the end of the Italian war was good for one thing. It had encouraged King Felipe's return to his wife. The Queen of England and her consort would be grandparents by next year.
1. Archduke Charles was the third son of Emperor Ferdinand, born in 1540. In history, he married his niece. Not only will this match be less incest, Philip can give some of his lands (once he suceeded his brother) as her dowry.
2. William Cecil served Mary in OTL So I see no reason he wouldn't do the same here. He seems to be a pragmatic man who serves the kingdom first.
3. I must admit, I was originally going to have Mary join the war and lose Calais as she did in history. That seemed unfair as I didn't do that in my Elizabeth I timeline. Besides as noted above, she has more to lose than she does to win by siding with Spain.
4. Guglielmo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua was born in 1538 and would gain a second dukedom in 1574. He was also a great patron of music. In OTL, he married the sixth daughter of Emperor Ferdinad, Archduchess Eleanor.
Catalina and Felipe of Spain met in the summer of 1556. Neither were particularly impressed by the other. Catalina found her husband to be a "cold fish". She particularly did not like how he had refused to allow Carlos to attend their wedding feast even going as so far to comment on it publicly. Felipe found his wife to be opinionated, fierce, and ill-behaved. Not even a month after the wedding, Philip returned to fighting the French, leaving his new wife to bound with his son.
Meanwhile Philip made a stop in Vienna to meet with the new Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand. While he was there, he arranged the marriage between his second daughter Elizabeth and Archduke Charles [1]. The two men got along quite well, being of similar age. They both agreed that the Ottomans were the biggest threat with Philip promising to do his best to get the Lutheran princes of Germany to put aside their differences with the Catholic princes in order to prevent the Turks from coming any further into Europe. Acting as his wife's envoy, Philip signed the Treaty of Vienna, making an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire.
Over in England, Mary was deliberating whether or not to join the war against France. Her councilors, including her secretary William Cecil [2] insisted that they had no personal stake in a war that looked like Spain was loosing. Not to mention, the Prince of Wales was currently engaged to Princess Elizabeth whose father was promising a large dowry no other Catholic princess could match.
Another point was she still needed to settle her father's debts (not to mention scrounge up money for three more dowries), and the tension between the Protestants and the Catholics was still contentious. Mary would later admit in her memoirs that she feared that Philip would see England's neutral stance as a betrayal and take it out on her daughter much like King Henry had often blamed King Fernando and Emperor Charles "betrayals" as the fault of Queen Katherine. But in the end she acquiesced [3] and instead focused on refiling England's coffers.
In more personal matters, Mary continued to search Italy for her third daughter and namesake. She decided on Guglielmo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua, [4] a respectful dukedom, but not one who would demand a too large of a dowry. Out of her six children, let left Joan and Edward unattached. There was also the matter of her sister. Elizabeth was now a woman of over twenty years. She was in her prime and many monarchs of the Lutheran faith were eager to seek her hand. However, Elizabeth had no intention of wedding. Although, Philip's devotion to her sister had gone a long way to repairing how she viewed marriage, she still had a very practical reason not to marry: she did not wish to be used against her sister. She made it clear she had no wish to wed and Mary accepted that, mostly because she felt Philip and Elizabeth were the only two people she felt she could trust completely.
Prince Philip of Wales left Hatfield shortly after turning ten, being sent to Ludlow just like his Great-Uncle Arthur. His mother ensured he had the top education, encouraging him to be fluent in several languages including French, Latin, German, and Spanish. The Duke of Somerset sent a tutor from Palatine to better prepare him to rule over the electorship.
Otto Henry's death in 1559 meant Philip had to extend his already long stay in Germany. Mary would write that despite the letters they sent each other constantly, it was torturous to spend nearly five years apart. However, Philip felt he needed to handle matters in person. "The distance between us is wide, my darling, but you are here in spirit and my heart. And that feeling keeps me warm during the long winter," he wrote to her in one his letters.
Once he was sure that everything was settled, the Duke of Somerset returned to England. He was received warmly by his loving wife. Not so warmly by his sister-in-law. Although, the hot-tempered princess had enough etiquette not to upbraid her brother in public, it was known by those close to the "power trio" that she upbraided him in private, admonishing him for leaving her poor sister alone, breaking her heart, sending her into depression that was hidden by a fragile mask.
Mary for her part did not hold Philip's absence against him. She was far too busy making up for lost time, going on a second honeymoon while Elizabeth acted as regent. On the heels of planning the wedding of their daughter and Archduke Charles, Mary and Philip received surprising and joyous news from Spain. It seemed that the end of the Italian war was good for one thing. It had encouraged King Felipe's return to his wife. The Queen of England and her consort would be grandparents by next year.
1. Archduke Charles was the third son of Emperor Ferdinand, born in 1540. In history, he married his niece. Not only will this match be less incest, Philip can give some of his lands (once he suceeded his brother) as her dowry.
2. William Cecil served Mary in OTL So I see no reason he wouldn't do the same here. He seems to be a pragmatic man who serves the kingdom first.
3. I must admit, I was originally going to have Mary join the war and lose Calais as she did in history. That seemed unfair as I didn't do that in my Elizabeth I timeline. Besides as noted above, she has more to lose than she does to win by siding with Spain.
4. Guglielmo Gonzaga, Duke of Mantua was born in 1538 and would gain a second dukedom in 1574. He was also a great patron of music. In OTL, he married the sixth daughter of Emperor Ferdinad, Archduchess Eleanor.
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Damn, I get the feeling that Katherine may be quite the Queen of Spain if she can find a way to make her voice known as Queen.
1560
Mary's joy at her husband's return was dampened upon learning that she was entering menopause. For Mary, it meant her days of youth were over. She was no longer a desirable maiden with a fertile womb. Now she was old and surely her husband would turn his gaze to someone younger and prettier just as her father had done. Philip disagreed and apparently said something so "vulgar" that Mary refused to repeat it in her memoirs. She also couldn't stop smiling for weeks afterwards. To put it Elizabeth's words, "Whatever it is he said, it could not be so bad as my sister is acting like a blushing maiden. She is trying to act offended but clearly is quite flattered."
While her mother tried to get used to the new stage of her life, Princess Elizabeth the Younger left England to marry Archduke Charles. At first Archduke Charles was cold to his wife as unlike his brother, he was a conservative Catholic and was suspicious of a girl raised in a bastion of heresy. But Elizabeth, unlike her sister, could adapt easy and she was soft spoken and patient. Soon enough she warmed her way in her husband's heart.
Speaking of Queen Catalina, with the war between France and Spain over, her estranged husband returned. Although they certainly still didn't think much of each other, they still slept together enough times to conceive. Catalina used her pregnancy to coax Felipe into inviting Carlos back to court especially when Felipe was negotiating a match between Carlos and Princess Marguerite [1].
Negotiations between Queen Mary and King Henri [2] had finished. Princess Elisabeth and Prince Philip would be married in three years time by proxy. She would then come to England when she turned nineteen.
In England, Queen Mary enacts a series of laws that allows non-Catholics to practice their faith without fear of reprisal. However, she made it clear that was as far as she was willing to go, "for England is a Catholic nation". This does not please everybody as expected, but many accept it is a good compromise.
The year does not pass without it's share of scandal. In December, Mary was most displeased to learn that the sister of Jane Grey, Katherine Grey married Edward Seymour [3]. She had the couple imprisoned. It is this incident that many movies and tv shows thank God for Mary's decision to write her memoirs. For she recalled her entire meeting with the disgraced Katherine.
Queen Mary, furious by what she perceived as a betrayal, confronted her cousin, demanding to know why she had married without royal permission, committing treason. Lady Katherine's response was to inform her that she had fallen in love just as her grandmother had with the Duke of Suffolk. The argument went around in circles until finally Katherine asked if she would die just like her sister, Jane Grey. Mary's response was of course not, her crime however foolish, did not warrant death. Katherine replied in an ice cold voice, "I could not be sure. After all, when men rose up for Jane, you killed her. But when they did for the Lady Elizabeth, you spared her."
Queen Mary could not respond to that. Instead, she left, admitting in her memoirs that Katherine's words, unfair as they were, shook her badly.
1. As Elisabeth is marrying Prince Philip and Princess Claude was hunchbacked, the seven-year-old Marguerite was chosen as future bride for Prince Carlos instead.
2. No joust=no dead King Henri. I think I will let his son live a bit longer as well.
3. As she did in OTL.
While her mother tried to get used to the new stage of her life, Princess Elizabeth the Younger left England to marry Archduke Charles. At first Archduke Charles was cold to his wife as unlike his brother, he was a conservative Catholic and was suspicious of a girl raised in a bastion of heresy. But Elizabeth, unlike her sister, could adapt easy and she was soft spoken and patient. Soon enough she warmed her way in her husband's heart.
Speaking of Queen Catalina, with the war between France and Spain over, her estranged husband returned. Although they certainly still didn't think much of each other, they still slept together enough times to conceive. Catalina used her pregnancy to coax Felipe into inviting Carlos back to court especially when Felipe was negotiating a match between Carlos and Princess Marguerite [1].
Negotiations between Queen Mary and King Henri [2] had finished. Princess Elisabeth and Prince Philip would be married in three years time by proxy. She would then come to England when she turned nineteen.
In England, Queen Mary enacts a series of laws that allows non-Catholics to practice their faith without fear of reprisal. However, she made it clear that was as far as she was willing to go, "for England is a Catholic nation". This does not please everybody as expected, but many accept it is a good compromise.
The year does not pass without it's share of scandal. In December, Mary was most displeased to learn that the sister of Jane Grey, Katherine Grey married Edward Seymour [3]. She had the couple imprisoned. It is this incident that many movies and tv shows thank God for Mary's decision to write her memoirs. For she recalled her entire meeting with the disgraced Katherine.
Queen Mary, furious by what she perceived as a betrayal, confronted her cousin, demanding to know why she had married without royal permission, committing treason. Lady Katherine's response was to inform her that she had fallen in love just as her grandmother had with the Duke of Suffolk. The argument went around in circles until finally Katherine asked if she would die just like her sister, Jane Grey. Mary's response was of course not, her crime however foolish, did not warrant death. Katherine replied in an ice cold voice, "I could not be sure. After all, when men rose up for Jane, you killed her. But when they did for the Lady Elizabeth, you spared her."
Queen Mary could not respond to that. Instead, she left, admitting in her memoirs that Katherine's words, unfair as they were, shook her badly.
1. As Elisabeth is marrying Prince Philip and Princess Claude was hunchbacked, the seven-year-old Marguerite was chosen as future bride for Prince Carlos instead.
2. No joust=no dead King Henri. I think I will let his son live a bit longer as well.
3. As she did in OTL.
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Ah, Mary has forged a good compromise for England, I suppose we will see if her successors agree or not...
Thank you.
Mary is trying her best. She doesn't want to be hypocritical, making an exception with Elizabeth and Philip for their reformist beliefs. However, that doesn't mean it will be an easy road.