WI: Kingdom of Sub-Roman Britian?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 67076
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Deleted member 67076

So, what if, shortly after the Romans pull out in 410, the various petty sub-roman kingdoms were united into a stable, prosperous state by a successful general(s) before 450 CE?

How would this impact history, the English Language and the culture of the British Isles?
 
Firstly, there wouldn't be an english language. The Saxons are the entire reason English exists as a language, otherwise it would be some kind of British Romance language.
 
Would it be able to fend off the Anglos and Saxons?
If so, we might get a Romano-British successor state.
Its language would be heavily Latin-influenced, and may get into spats with the ERE about being the successors of the Empire (we speak Latin! vs we are descended from Constantine!).
 

Deleted member 67076

Firstly, there wouldn't be an english language. The Saxons are the entire reason English exists as a language, otherwise it would be some kind of British Romance language.
Perhaps I should have said Language of Britannia:eek:

Still, what happens to the language the Saxons speak?
 
So, what if, shortly after the Romans pull out in 410, the various petty sub-roman kingdoms were united into a stable, prosperous state by a successful general(s) before 450 CE?

How would this impact history, the English Language and the culture of the British Isles?

The question is whether there is that figure competent and successful enough to rally the Romano-Britons into a single state. Who in sub-Roman Britain is capable enough to pull such a feat?
 

Deleted member 67076

The question is whether there is that figure competent and successful enough to rally the Romano-Britons into a single state. Who in sub-Roman Britain is capable enough to pull such a feat?
Maybe Constantine III decides to play it safe and rule in Britain instead of marching into Gaul and trying to usurp the throne from Honorius?
 
Maybe Constantine III decides to play it safe and rule in Britain instead of marching into Gaul and trying to usurp the throne from Honorius?

His troops would not remain content with Britain. If Constantine III decided to stay in Britain instead of advancing into Gaul, he'll be pressured into doing so or he'll be killed and replaced by someone who will.
 

Deleted member 67076

His troops would not remain content with Britain. If Constantine III decided to stay in Britain instead of advancing into Gaul, he'll be pressured into doing so or he'll be killed and replaced by someone who will.

What if the Saxons invade shortly before he prepares to leave for Gaul forcing him to deal with the threat and this convinces him to stay in Britain
 
What if the Saxons invade shortly before he prepares to leave for Gaul forcing him to deal with the threat and this convinces him to stay in Britain

How bout, the saxons invade and kill enough of his troops that pushing on into gual infeasible idea but being king of Briton is still feasible.
 

Deleted member 67076

How bout, the saxons invade and kill enough of his troops that pushing on into gual infeasible idea but being king of Briton is still feasible.
That might work. Wouldn't that also has the effect of stopping or at least postponing the Barbarian invasions into Hispania and Africa?
 
A figure like Ambrosius Aurelianus (who was in the 5th century) maintaining whatever coalition he managed to piece together would be a good start.
 
How bout, the saxons invade and kill enough of his troops that pushing on into gual infeasible idea but being king of Briton is still feasible.

Why not turn his army towards Scotland and Ireland? I know that some of Southern Scotland was controlled by Rome at one point but by the time Rome abandoned the province centuries had past sense they lost control their. So maybe Constantine III wants to guarantee his power base against Barbarian invasion.
 
Why not turn his army towards Scotland and Ireland? I know that some of Southern Scotland was controlled by Rome at one point but by the time Rome abandoned the province centuries had past sense they lost control their. So maybe Constantine III wants to guarantee his power base against Barbarian invasion.

There isn't much in Scotland or Ireland to conquer, unlike Gaul.
 
If there isn't much to conquer then why didn't Rome ever fully conquer either of them?

Lack of economic incentive. Re: Samuel Johnsons observations on Scotland. When the Romans did attempt their northern advances they were mostly motivated by protecting the farmlands and small twons to the south, and found little of either to the north. Mostly they found what they determined to be savage, unlettered, barbariac, and anoying subhumans not worth the effor tto subdue. maybe if they had found gold, or prosperous fishing ports, or fat valley villiages surrounded by grain fields. If any of that existed the Romans failed to see it.
 
Lack of economic incentive. Re: Samuel Johnsons observations on Scotland. When the Romans did attempt their northern advances they were mostly motivated by protecting the farmlands and small twons to the south, and found little of either to the north. Mostly they found what they determined to be savage, unlettered, barbariac, and anoying subhumans not worth the effor tto subdue. maybe if they had found gold, or prosperous fishing ports, or fat valley villiages surrounded by grain fields. If any of that existed the Romans failed to see it.

Well if you give Agricola or Septimius Severus a couple more years, you have a Roman Caledonia.
 

Deleted member 67076

Yes, that timeline fits the criteria nicely.
It does:D. However, suppose a kingdom like that manages to push out/assimilate the Saxons, Jutes, Angles, etc, what happens to the language spoken in kingdom? Is is still going to be Germanic or will it be a British influenced Romance language?
 
It does:D. However, suppose a kingdom like that manages to push out/assimilate the Saxons, Jutes, Angles, etc, what happens to the language spoken in kingdom? Is is still going to be Germanic or will it be a British influenced Romance language?

There is evidence of Germanic languages being spoken in the east of Britain before the English invasions. Depending on the power of this new Romano-British state, an alt-English will probably exist as a minority language.

Has the "Saxon shore" been settled by Germanic peoples at this POD?
 
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