WI: Kingdom of Mysore conquers Travancore in 1790?

Zachariah

Banned
Let's say that the pivotal twenty-man Travancorean ambush in the Battle of the Nedumkotta, led by Vaikom Padmanabha Pillai, is thwarted ITTL- instead of successfully killing Tipu Sultan's army chief Meer Qamaruddin Khan in the ambush by a group of twenty Travancoreans, and inflicting lasting injury on Tipu Sultan himself, as well as capturing the sword, the pallanquin, the dagger, the ring and many other personal effects of Tipu Sultan, to be presented triumphantly to the ruler of Travancore, Vaikom Padmanabha Pillai and the other 19 reserve soldiers from the Nandyat Kalari are spotted, engaged and killed before they get the chance to ambush the Mysorean army leadership.

As such, TTL's Battle of the Nedumkotta results in a swift, hard-fought victory for the Mysoreans, who breach the Nedumkotta in early January 1790, more than three months earlier than IOTL, and subsequently advance across Travancore with their full invasion force. With the Governor of Madras, John Holland choosing to engage in negotiations with Tipu rather than mobilising the military (on account of his own vested financial interests as the primary creditor of the Nawabs of Arcot, and the knowledge that his primary source of earnings would be suspended in the event of war with Mysore), leaving the Company's troops as passive spectators, Travancore is forced to surrender and become a tributary state of Mysore, bringing the conflict to an end and completing the Mysorean conquest of Kerala, in April 1790; before either Charles Cornwallis or General William Medows can relieve Holland of his command, and before the British East India Company can declare war on Mysore (which they only did in May IOTL).

What happens next ITTL? Is Holland still ousted from his post by either Cornwallis or Medows? Does it follow that the British would still declare war on Mysore over the invasion of Travancore, and start a Third Anglo-Mysore War, regardless of Tipu Sultan having already achieved victory? If so, then would the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas still support the British in the campaign? And if not, then how much stronger might Mysore's position be by the time a Third Anglo-Mysore War broke out (if it ever did)? How much greater would the likelihood of Mysore retaining its independence, and dominance over Southern India, to the present-day have been?
 

Zachariah

Banned
I assume with the same military superiority that let Cornwallis trash Tipu Sultan in OTL.
But that military superiority no longer exists. Mysore's suffered far fewer losses than in OTL, and is in a significantly stronger military and strategic position than it was IOTL. And neither does the cassus belli for declaring war in the first place- Travancore's already ceded defeat by the time either Cornwallis or Medows arrive in Madras to depose Holland, who's already pursued a policy of appeasement.
 
I honesty feel this won't save Mysore. The hostilities between the British and Mysore is still there, and strong, victory over Travancore only solidify that. The British and the East India Company will find a reason to go to war with Tipu. Holland would be remove (And replace by Cornwallis) , and the British will go to war, and they will win over Tipu with the aid of the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas, as to deal with Mysore.
 

Zachariah

Banned
I honesty feel this won't save Mysore. The hostilities between the British and Mysore is still there, and strong, victory over Travancore only solidify that. The British and the East India Company will find a reason to go to war with Tipu. Holland would be remove (And replace by Cornwallis) , and the British will go to war, and they will win over Tipu with the aid of the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas, as to deal with Mysore.
But the aid of the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas would be less guaranteed ITTL. While a delay would only increase the likelihood of the French intervening on the side of Mysore.
 
But the aid of the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas would be less guaranteed ITTL. While a delay would only increase the likelihood of the French intervening on the side of Mysore.

The Freach are far busy with their own issues at the moment, and they don't really have a real presence in India since the Seven Years War. I doubt they take the time to help Mysore while the French Revolution is turning the streets of Paris red.


The Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas, less guaranteed ITTL however it may be, I think would aid the British, Medows, and Cornwallis bring down Mysore and all take a slice of the pie, and fearful of themselves being another Travancore.
 
it really depends - how significant were the losses, in the end? I can't find any numbers of the losses inflicted so it's hard to say except saying that they were significant, so that'd be my first question. From what little i can tell (not being particularly learned on the subject, but glancing over it), the British were at many ports in a tenuous position, where their forces were just sufficient enough to keep Tipu away. If the British were not able to achieve a major victory early on, and are constantly driven back, then the success of the coalition warfare is called into question, as their continued assistance of the British is contingent upon success - they don't want to be forced to cede any territory, themselves.

At the very least, removing Travanacore completely from the equation, so early too, means that the Mysorean army will be able to fall back before the rainy season and better position itself for the British advances, combined with not experiencing nearly the same number of losses. So, the end result might end up better for them - or the war could drag out longer, with the Briitsh doing their best to wear down the Mysoreans.b
 
The Freach are far busy with their own issues at the moment, and they don't really have a real presence in India since the Seven Years War. I doubt they take the time to help Mysore while the French Revolution is turning the streets of Paris red.

Ah, but in TTL Napoleon will invade Egypt in a bid to reach India!
 
Besides Mysorean troops taking much less damage I imagine they used a huge amount of ammunition in the months of fighting against Travancore. One of their principal historical weakness was saltpeter supplies, which the British controlled in Bengal and denied to them. One time when the British took a fort it had a huge number of muskets and bullets, but almost no saltmeter. So if they win quickly, their ammunition supplies will be much more intact at the opening of any war against the English.

I don't know much about Travancore's industries, but it also gives a lot more coastline. That's a double edged sword. The English have naval superiority for now, so more territory to defend. But the Mysoreans had a major naval construction program and this gives more bases and presumably more construction capacity. If the war is delayed for a period of time more, the Mysorean fleet will start to shape up as a serious foe, although gunpowder issues might still plague it, and the Mysoreans were making a serious effort to fortify their bases with coastal artillery. It wouldn't be at risk of getting taken in coastal raids like in the Second Anglo-Mysore war.
 
Ah, but in TTL Napoleon will invade Egypt in a bid to reach India!
Is this actually sarcasm?I think it is,but if not,a serious question is how the heck does Napoleon get to India from Egypt. With what fleet?Can he somehow drag his ships from the Mediterranean and into the Red Sea?
 
Is this actually sarcasm?I think it is,but if not,a serious question is how the heck does Napoleon get to India from Egypt. With what fleet?Can he somehow drag his ships from the Mediterranean and into the Red Sea?

It's a joking reference to Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, intended to meddle in India. It did not work.
 
It's a joking reference to Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, intended to meddle in India. It did not work.
if the Mysoreans have a proper navy to rendezvous with the French it might. The naval balance of power in the late 1790s was still unsettled, with the French and Spanish fleets not yet destroyed, and the British had had to go so far as abandoning the Mediterranean for a period. They presumably wouldn't have much forces to send to India, so if Mysore in collaboration with the occasional French raider controls the Indian ocean, then parts of the French army might be moved to India. It still doesn't resolve the problem with the Mediterranean though once the French fleet gets burned at Aboukir...
 
One thing that might be useful economically is that taking control of Travancore gains control of its highly productive pepper plantations. The Malabar coast is a very important pepper producing region, and dominated the pepper trade. Mysore probably doesn't have a monopoly as I am sure there are alternate sources, but I am reasonably sure you are looking at a lot of potential export revenue.

I don't know to what degree the British had a stranglehold over total Indian commerce. However, the Danes had a trading concession at Colachel, the Dutch traded there, and the Portuguese are along the coast. So presuming whether they aren't blocked from doing so by the British, they should be able to continue to export and earn significant proceeds. If the Mysorean navy accomplishes sea control in the region, which sounds ambitious but not impossible, then they would be able to have domination of regional pepper markets. Historically the Tipu Sultan was very interested indeed in setting up overseas trading relations, so he would jump at exporting such an important revenue-producing product.
 
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Let's say that the pivotal twenty-man Travancorean ambush in the Battle of the Nedumkotta, led by Vaikom Padmanabha Pillai, is thwarted ITTL- instead of successfully killing Tipu Sultan's army chief Meer Qamaruddin Khan in the ambush by a group of twenty Travancoreans, and inflicting lasting injury on Tipu Sultan himself, as well as capturing the sword, the pallanquin, the dagger, the ring and many other personal effects of Tipu Sultan, to be presented triumphantly to the ruler of Travancore, Vaikom Padmanabha Pillai and the other 19 reserve soldiers from the Nandyat Kalari are spotted, engaged and killed before they get the chance to ambush the Mysorean army leadership.

As such, TTL's Battle of the Nedumkotta results in a swift, hard-fought victory for the Mysoreans, who breach the Nedumkotta in early January 1790, more than three months earlier than IOTL, and subsequently advance across Travancore with their full invasion force. With the Governor of Madras, John Holland choosing to engage in negotiations with Tipu rather than mobilising the military (on account of his own vested financial interests as the primary creditor of the Nawabs of Arcot, and the knowledge that his primary source of earnings would be suspended in the event of war with Mysore), leaving the Company's troops as passive spectators, Travancore is forced to surrender and become a tributary state of Mysore, bringing the conflict to an end and completing the Mysorean conquest of Kerala, in April 1790; before either Charles Cornwallis or General William Medows can relieve Holland of his command, and before the British East India Company can declare war on Mysore (which they only did in May IOTL).

What happens next ITTL? Is Holland still ousted from his post by either Cornwallis or Medows? Does it follow that the British would still declare war on Mysore over the invasion of Travancore, and start a Third Anglo-Mysore War, regardless of Tipu Sultan having already achieved victory? If so, then would the Nizam of Hyderabad and the Marathas still support the British in the campaign? And if not, then how much stronger might Mysore's position be by the time a Third Anglo-Mysore War broke out (if it ever did)? How much greater would the likelihood of Mysore retaining its independence, and dominance over Southern India, to the present-day have been?

Same thing that happened to Mangalore. The men would be killed and the women and children converted to Islam
 
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