WI: King Philip I of Germany survives?

Philip I of Germany, better known as Philip of Swabia, was the younger brother and successor of Emperor Henry VI Hohenstaufen. After his brother's death left three-year-old Friedrich as his heir, Philip was elected as the German King, leading to a long-running dispute with Otto of Brunswick. Eventually Philip was able to consolidate his power in Germany, but on the eve of his victory he was assassinated by the mad Count Palatine Otto VIII in 1208, creating a situation that eventually led to his nephew the King of Sicily becoming Holy Roman Emperor and even later leading to the decline of central power within the Empire.

So what if Philip wasn't assassinated or Otto VIII was caught before he could do much damage and Philip survived the assault? This would mean no union between Sicily and the Empire, leaving Friedrich II ruling Sicily and Philip in Germany. Considering Philip was only 31 when he was murdered we could easily expect him to reign for another 20 plus years and eventually father a male heir. What's the long-term affects of this survival? A stronger, Hohenstaufen Sicily (with no Angevin invasion) and a relatively centralized Empire? The continence of the Hohenstaufen dynasty? A weaker Papacy in Italy?

Thoughts?
 
Considering how much Frederick II preferred ruling Sicily over Germany in OTL, the survival of Philip would be a godsend in TTL. Philip and Frederick would likely form an alliance against both the Papacy and the cities of Lombardy. This alliance would likely result in Italy being divided between Philip and Frederick. Philip would likely be able to further centralize the Empire and (with the assistance of Frederick and possible alliance with Andrew II of Hungary) likely lead a crusade to recapture Jerusalem. This crusade would likely prove more successful than the Fifth Crusade of OTL.
 
Right idea, perhaps the wrong person.
Frederick did effectively establish a separate Hohenstaufen dynasty in Sicily, in the person of his son Manfred. The Popes were strongly opposed and considered him a usurper. But they hated the Staufen and made no move to put his 'legitimate' nephew on the throne either.
instead they sort around for a Monarch more agreeable to them, settling on Charles d'Angou.
He invaded and Manfred was killed at the Battle of Benevento, due to the French litterally discovering a chink in his soldiers armour.
it always leaves me with this image of his mercenaries having to clamp their arms to their sides, then having to attempt to shuffle off the Battlefield.
Anyway they should have never crossed that bridge.
The results of that battle are important for an alternate history, because it bought about an extinction to the Staufen, the rise of the Short lived but powerful Angevin dynasty, and a considerable change in the history of Italy.
 
Its also worth noting that Frederick/Manfred probably represented the last practical attempt to unite Italy before the 19th century.
 
Its also worth noting that Frederick/Manfred probably represented the last practical attempt to unite Italy before the 19th century.
The Visconti probably deserve a mention, depending on how you are defining "practical."

But yes, I don't think the fact that Sicily and the HRE are ruled by different Hohenstaufens is going to make the pope any more happy to be encircled.
 
The Visconti probably deserve a mention, depending on how you are defining "practical."

But yes, I don't think the fact that Sicily and the HRE are ruled by different Hohenstaufens is going to make the pope any more happy to be encircled.
I believe the Visconti were only active in North Italy, Frederick was trying to conquer the whole country and if he had spent a bit less time thinking about what happened after he united the country, and put a bit more thinking into actually uniting it, he might have just united it.
You could argue that the Habsburgs united Italy in the sense that they gained suzerainty over most of it, but they never had ambition to rule the place as one country
The Popes were major impediments to any attempt to unite the country. Could'nt do it themselves, didn't want anyone else to do it
 
One interesting result of the Staufen not dying out would have occurred in Germany.
In OTL shortly before Frederick II died Frederick 'the Warlike' of the great house of Babenburg died fittingly enough, for someone with his nickname, he died in battle, after his death , as he was childless his lands and title became vacant. The possession of his lands was supposed to pass to the Emperor. But Emperor Frederick in Italy was in no position to do anything about it. Nor could his short lived son Conrad IV.
Then two of the claimants to the vacant title, marched off to Italy, where due to a stroke of bad luck, they were both beheaded.
Ironically, in view of what happened later, the kings of Bohemia and the King of Hungary became involved in a war over the vacant lordship, which King Ottokar initially won.
This lasted until the New Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf, Allied with the Hungarians, and invaded the duchy and expelled Ottokar, where upon he then declared himself the new Duke of Austria.
All this means, that if King Philip had lived and his children had succeeded, him they or the Margraves of Baden, would have probably received the Duchy of Austria, and there would have been No Habsburg Austrian Duchy.
 
One interesting result of the Staufen not dying out would have occurred in Germany.
In OTL shortly before Frederick II died Frederick 'the Warlike' of the great house of Babenburg died fittingly enough, for someone with his nickname, he died in battle, after his death , as he was childless his lands and title became vacant. The possession of his lands was supposed to pass to the Emperor. But Emperor Frederick in Italy was in no position to do anything about it. Nor could his short lived son Conrad IV.
Then two of the claimants to the vacant title, marched off to Italy, where due to a stroke of bad luck, they were both beheaded.
Ironically, in view of what happened later, the kings of Bohemia and the King of Hungary became involved in a war over the vacant lordship, which King Ottokar initially won.
This lasted until the New Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf, Allied with the Hungarians, and invaded the duchy and expelled Ottokar, where upon he then declared himself the new Duke of Austria.
All this means, that if King Philip had lived and his children had succeeded, him they or the Margraves of Baden, would have probably received the Duchy of Austria, and there would have been No Habsburg Austrian Duchy.

Actually, the Wettins have claims to both Swabia and Sicily but just let the Habsburgs gain their rightful land, I made a timeline where they gain their rightful inheritance.
 
Philip of Swabia becoming Holy Roman Emperor Philip I would have an interesting side-effect in regards to the Capetian-Plantagenêt rivalry.

Philip of Swabia had received the support of Philippe II Augustus while Otto IV had the support of his maternal uncle, John Lackland. OTL, since Philip was assassinated, Otto became Emperor and eventually joined John Lackland's war against Philippe Augustus in 1214, the result being Otto's defeat during the Battle of Bouvines. In this scenario, with Philip of Swabia as Holy Roman Emperor, I doubt John Lackland would be in a position to attack in 1214.
 
Philip of Swabia becoming Holy Roman Emperor Philip I would have an interesting side-effect in regards to the Capetian-Plantagenêt rivalry.

Philip of Swabia had received the support of Philippe II Augustus while Otto IV had the support of his maternal uncle, John Lackland. OTL, since Philip was assassinated, Otto became Emperor and eventually joined John Lackland's war against Philippe Augustus in 1214, the result being Otto's defeat during the Battle of Bouvines. In this scenario, with Philip of Swabia as Holy Roman Emperor, I doubt John Lackland would be in a position to attack in 1214.


Which might be to John's benefit, given how the attack turned out OTL.
 
Considering how much Frederick II preferred ruling Sicily over Germany in OTL, the survival of Philip would be a godsend in TTL. Philip and Frederick would likely form an alliance against both the Papacy and the cities of Lombardy. This alliance would likely result in Italy being divided between Philip and Frederick. Philip would likely be able to further centralize the Empire and (with the assistance of Frederick and possible alliance with Andrew II of Hungary) likely lead a crusade to recapture Jerusalem. This crusade would likely prove more successful than the Fifth Crusade of OTL.

Philip, as king of the Romans will claim the (medieval) kingdom of Italy, since it was considered a part of the Empire. The relationship between the Imperial Hohenstaufen and Sicilian Hohenstaufen with the Papacy will be complicated, but this division will also male the Papacy feel a bit less threatened. Since any de facto division might lead to some discontent between the branches.

@kasumigenx: you don't see too fond of the Habsburgs. However the Habsburgs were a member of the Hohenstaufen party, so they are likely to remain prominent Swabian nobles. IOTL it's only after the Habsburgs gained the throne, that they let their dynastic interests prevail of those of the heirs of the house of Hohenstaufen.
 
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The Austrian inheritance is a kinda complicated issue.

When Fredrick II of Austria died, the male-line of the Babenberg dynasty died, but the Privilegium Minus issued by Barbarossa allowed the female line to obtain the throne. By this logic Gertrude (Frederick's niece) would be the rightful heir.

Ottokar of Bohemia tried to add Austria and Styria to his realm by marrying his son with Gertrude, but he died soon after, Gertrude then married the Margraive of Baden, Herman VI, but he died in 1250 with a toddler heir, Frederick of Baden.

In his deathbed, Frederick II (the HRE) decided to overrule Gertrude from the succession and put his grandson Frederick (son of his rebel son Henry (VII) and Margaret Babenberg, Frederick II of Austria's sister) was the Duke, but he also died soon after without even claiming the fief.

With Gertrude's son being a toddler, Ottokar married Margaret himself and claimed Austria and Styria (and later Carinthia too). Frederick of Baden became the best friend of Conrad the Younger (Conradin, Frederick II's grandson) and followed him in his campaign to reconquer Sicily from Charles of Anjou, but was captured and executed.

When the princes of the Empire elected Rudolf of Habsburg as the new King of Romans, the proceeded to subdue Ottokar (that had ambitions for the throne himself) and defeated him. To improve his standards to those great lords in the Empire he proclaimed the inheritance of Carinthia invalid and confiscated Austria and Styria too, forming the Habsburg dynasty we all love.
 
Actually king of the Romans Rudolf of Habsburg was allowed to keep Austria & Styria for his dynasty, which was the most valuable part, however he wasn't allowed to keep everything.
He ended up rewarding his ally Meinhard of Gorizia-Tyrol with the duchy of Carinthia and the margraviate of Carniola, which was 'leased' from the Habsburgs, both were to return to the Habsburgs in the event, if that branch of the Meinhardinger would go extinct (IOTL that happened in 1335).
 
Sorry to bump this but I was thinking about the German/Sicilian branch division recently. Just an idea but, assuming Frederick II still marries Isabelle II of Jerusalem, could we see Frederick II put more effort into securing his Eastern Kingdom and in potentially reestablishing Crusader influence in the Middle east?
 
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