WI King Henry's VIII "Great Matter" was resolved by 1528?

In 1528 King Henry VIII sent Edward Fox, doctor of divinity, and Stephen Gardiner, doctor of both civil and canon law, to Rome to try to convince the pope to grant Cardinal Wolsey the power to rule on the king's case. The following April, Pope Clement VII agreed to send to England Italian cardinal Lorenzo Campeggio, to try the case with Cardinal Wolsey, but did not agree to give either cardinal the power to pronounce sentence. Cardinal Campeggio arrived in England at the end of September 1528. The proceedings began the following October 22 Cardinal Campeggio's suggestion that the king reconcile with the queen angered the former to pacify King Henry, the Italian cardinal showed the king a bull that authorized him to adjudicate on the case.
WI Pope Clement VII had authorised Cardinal Campeggio to solve the matter without referring the final decision to the Holy See? If Charles V got mad because of a potential divorce Clement VII could blame Cardinal Campeggio for that...
How is that altering History? Any thoughts?
 
Henry VIII

I can't recall all of the details. If Henry VIII and Catherine do divorce earlier, it means that Henry and Anne marry earlier. This means that Henry is younger when he married Jayne Seymour and may have had more children by a future wife (or wives?). Maybe Edward has a brother who lives.
 
Actually if Clemens VII wants to resolve the matter quickly and keep England in Catholicism Cardinal Campeggio should have been empowered to pronounce a judgment not only hearing the case merely and then refer to the Pope for judgment...
In reality it would be a win-win situation for Clemens VII... If Cardinal Campeggio agrees to divorce Papacy gets England to remain Catholic and if Emperor Charles V gets mad because of his aunt's disgrace Pope blames the Cardinal.... Now on the other hand if Cardinal Campeggio says "No divorce" the Emperor is satisfied and the Pope blames (ones more!!!:D) the Cardinal and prolongs the matter until finding a compromise formula...
 
Well, the Pope would be barred from authorising divorce in the first place (Magesterium), though possibly he could grant annulment, which would have the consequence of having Princess Mary be declared a bastard. So the Spanish would be pissed off - the King of spain's granddaughter being called a bastard and all that.
 
Well, the Pope would be barred from authorising divorce in the first place (Magesterium), though possibly he could grant annulment, which would have the consequence of having Princess Mary be declared a bastard. So the Spanish would be pissed off - the King of spain's granddaughter being called a bastard and all that.

Actually that would be my guess... Clemens VII delegates Cardinal Campeggio authority to pronounce judgment... If Cardinal says yes to an annulment Spanish and Henry V of course they would be pissed off!!!
But the Pope can say... "Hey i told him to try the case and privately said to him not to grant an annulment... The stupid Cardinal made this mess go after him!!!!!"
 
I can't recall all of the details. If Henry VIII and Catherine do divorce earlier, it means that Henry and Anne marry earlier. This means that Henry is younger when he married Jayne Seymour and may have had more children by a future wife (or wives?). Maybe Edward has a brother who lives.

Wow, your missing the most important part, that England will not break with the Church of Rome. And without the massive power struggle that annuling Katherine's marriage and breaking with Rome brought about, then Henry VIII might not have as much freedom to dispose of his wives.

Without the break with Rome the politics of the court change massively. The Boleyns (sp?) despite having a daughter married to the King, probably won't gain as much power, since Sir Thomas More would probably maintain his service to the King. And once Anne fails to produce an heir, the process of ending the marriage might simply mean another divorce, rather than the head-chopping show that it was OTL.

While I don't think that this would significantly change Henry's foreign policy, it will massively effect the foreign policy of his heirs. With England in the Catholic camp, and all of Henry's heirs butterflied away, the way that alliances post-Henry 8 develop are going to be very different.
 
Wow, your missing the most important part, that England will not break with the Church of Rome. And without the massive power struggle that annuling Katherine's marriage and breaking with Rome brought about, then Henry VIII might not have as much freedom to dispose of his wives.

Without the break with Rome the politics of the court change massively. The Boleyns (sp?) despite having a daughter married to the King, probably won't gain as much power, since Sir Thomas More would probably maintain his service to the King. And once Anne fails to produce an heir, the process of ending the marriage might simply mean another divorce, rather than the head-chopping show that it was OTL.

While I don't think that this would significantly change Henry's foreign policy, it will massively effect the foreign policy of his heirs. With England in the Catholic camp, and all of Henry's heirs butterflied away, the way that alliances post-Henry 8 develop are going to be very different.

First of all, a divorce of Boelyn is out of the question if England is Catholic, because the Church never grants divorces, and an annulment would be out of the question if they "did it". More likely Henry would have fabricated treason charges and sent her to the axe. If Elizabeth is born before that, well, she would be the legitimate heir to the throne, seeing as Mary would be legally deemed a bastard.
 
First of all, a divorce of Boelyn is out of the question if England is Catholic, because the Church never grants divorces, and an annulment would be out of the question if they "did it". More likely Henry would have fabricated treason charges and sent her to the axe. If Elizabeth is born before that, well, she would be the legitimate heir to the throne, seeing as Mary would be legally deemed a bastard.

Actually Catholic Church has many precedents of annulments... Only this time Pope was a prisoner of HRE... who happened to be the "divorcee's" (sic) nephew... Clemens VII knew that if he pissed him off he would be kicked out from office just like that...
Had he granted Cardinal Campeggio to pronounce judgment he would blame the Cardinal for anything that annoyed HRE or the King of England... "Hey it was not me... It was that silly old Cardinal!!! Go after him!!!!":D:D:D:D
 
Why has no one mentioned the massive impact this will have on the Reformation?

I mean, England was the first nation to officially split with Catholicism. Without this happening, the Reformation movement will be heavily impeded, possibly to the point of extinction, keeping Catholicism the dominant power in Western Europe, and, consequently, the colonies.
 
Actually Catholic Church has many precedents of annulments... Only this time Pope was a prisoner of HRE... who happened to be the "divorcee's" (sic) nephew... Clemens VII knew that if he pissed him off he would be kicked out from office just like that...
Had he granted Cardinal Campeggio to pronounce judgment he would blame the Cardinal for anything that annoyed HRE or the King of England... "Hey it was not me... It was that silly old Cardinal!!! Go after him!!!!":D:D:D:D

Well, what would be the legal basis to annul Boelyn? Catherine's had at least a flimsy excuse, with the whole incest argument, but Anne's not even related to the King!
 
Well, what would be the legal basis to annul Boelyn? Catherine's had at least a flimsy excuse, with the whole incest argument, but Anne's not even related to the King!

That the King and his wife may have consummated the marriage, even had children, doesn't really matter. King Henry VIII is the King, and Boelyn is just a local noble. There are many examples of King recieving annulments despite clear evidence that the couple had in fact consummated the marriage.
 
That the King and his wife may have consummated the marriage, even had children, doesn't really matter. King Henry VIII is the King, and Boelyn is just a local noble. There are many examples of King recieving annulments despite clear evidence that the couple had in fact consummated the marriage.

True. If I were Henry, I'd just avoid the legal ambiguities and have her executed for treason and/or adultery, as in OTL.
 
Maybe if Henry VIII could control Papacy he would have obtained an annulment... For both Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn (if needed..)
Cardinal Wolsey tried unseccesfully to be elected Pope in 1522 and 1523 but he couldnt compete Cardinal Giulio de Medici who masterminded the election of Adrian VI in 1522 and his own in 1523...
Had he succeded to be elected Henry VIII has a strong ally in the Church...
 
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Maybe if Henry VIII could control Papacy he would have obtained an annulment... For both Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn (if needed..)
Cardinal Wolsey tried unseccesfully to be elected Pope in 1522 and 1523 but he couldnt compete Cardinal Giulio de Medici who masterminded the election of Adrian VI in 1522 and his own in 1523...
Had he succeded to be elected Henry VIII has a strong ally in the Church...

The Pope did not act the way he did because of a hatred of Henry VIII, he acted the way he did out of simple self-preservation. Charles V sacked Rome with mostly Lutheran troops, making it clear who was in control of the city. So even if Wolsey was elected Pope he would be put in precisely the same situation- Charles V has proven his willingness to use force against Rome and the Church and by extension then you.

I think the best way for this thing to get resolved is for that Cardinal to give Henry VIII his annulment, so that the Pope can plead ignorance. Charles V might be mad about it, but once he gets Henry VIII onside for the next war against France, I think he'll be alright with the whole thing.
 
The Pope did not act the way he did because of a hatred of Henry VIII, he acted the way he did out of simple self-preservation. Charles V sacked Rome with mostly Lutheran troops, making it clear who was in control of the city. So even if Wolsey was elected Pope he would be put in precisely the same situation- Charles V has proven his willingness to use force against Rome and the Church and by extension then you.

I think the best way for this thing to get resolved is for that Cardinal to give Henry VIII his annulment, so that the Pope can plead ignorance. Charles V might be mad about it, but once he gets Henry VIII onside for the next war against France, I think he'll be alright with the whole thing.

I second that... i think its the best option for the Pope...
 
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