WI: Kievan Rus a Jewish State?

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During the reign of Vladimir the Great, several envoys were sent from his court to study the religions of various neighboring nations with the goal finding a good one to convert his nation too.
Ukrainian sources say one of the religions his envoys studied and subsequently talked about with him was the Jewish faith. Eventually he said no to this prospect, and converted to christianity.

But what if, instead of choosing the Orthodox church, he went with the Jewish faith?

What would be the butterflies?
 

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He wouldn't chose Judaism. Orthodoxy or Islam brought with it diplomatic benefits, security benefits, ease of trade and such forth.

Judaism doesn't do any of these.

Most likely, some later ruler just converts the state to another religion.
 
Khazars were the major Jewish power in the region and the Kievan Rus had been beating up on them for decades - unlikely they would choose to follow the religion of the nation they were occupying (but not totally impossible).
 
Khazars were the major Jewish power in the region and the Kievan Rus had been beating up on them for decades - unlikely they would choose to follow the religion of the nation they were occupying (but not totally impossible).

The Germanic tribes that conquered the Western Roman Empire converted to Christianity.
 
The Germanic tribes that conquered the Western Roman Empire converted to Christianity.

...because they lived surrounded by the overwhelming majority of the Christians.
The Jews were never majority in Kievan Rus. They were a tiny minority.
Even in the Khazar Khaganate the Jews were not too many.
 
Khazars were the major Jewish power in the region and the Kievan Rus had been beating up on them for decades - unlikely they would choose to follow the religion of the nation they were occupying (but not totally impossible).

If Khazaria had been stronger and managed to resist Kievan Rus, maybe Kiev would choose Judaism. Of course, the question would be if they would remain Jewish. If so, could one see some sort of crusade by people further west or southwest against Kiev? Even if not, it is likely that the Mongols would still come at a later stage. An interesting thought would be the Mongols converting to Judaism, but I think this would be very unlikely, as Buddhism or even Islam would be more strategic.
 
If Khazaria had been stronger and managed to resist Kievan Rus, maybe Kiev would choose Judaism. Of course, the question would be if they would remain Jewish. If so, could one see some sort of crusade by people further west or southwest against Kiev? Even if not, it is likely that the Mongols would still come at a later stage. An interesting thought would be the Mongols converting to Judaism, but I think this would be very unlikely, as Buddhism or even Islam would be more strategic.

Yeah, this. Probably too late by the time of Sviatoslav. But earlier, it would certainly have been possible. The problem is getting the Khazars to focus on the comparatively poor, undeveloped lands to their north and west.
 
vasnetsov.jpg


During the reign of Vladimir the Great, several envoys were sent from his court to study the religions of various neighboring nations with the goal finding a good one to convert his nation too.
Ukrainian sources say one of the religions his envoys studied and subsequently talked about with him was the Jewish faith. Eventually he said no to this prospect, and converted to christianity.

But what if, instead of choosing the Orthodox church, he went with the Jewish faith?

What would be the butterflies?

I seriously doubt that story ever happened in real life. Vladimir's own grandmother, Saint Olga, converted to the Greek Christianity of Constantinople many years earlier. They were the most common sort of Christians in Rus territory. And it was the Byzantine Empire which had significant geo-political influence in the region for some time. Plus, he was marrying the Byzantine princess, Anna Porphyrogenita, sister of Basil II. I'm not sure that they would have ever given away one of the princesses to someone who did not convert before hand.

With all that in mind, I don't see why Vladimir would have needed to choose any alternate religions. If his conversion was spurred by the prospects of an imperial marriage, then I doubt he would have converted at all. He probably thought that his baptism was a mere formality, a means to an end, and would have continued worshipping Perun, Veles and Svarog anyway. His new wife's influence with him, preaching Christ in their bedchamber, would have informed his later actions.

There were political benefits, for kings and chieftains, to convert to Christianity. I truth, the Khazars were very pluralistic in religious terms, and the adopted Judaism of the ruling family was not shared by everyone. Nor was it enforced.

If Vladimir decided on Islam, then it would have been moved by the prospect of a dynastic marriage with a princess of the Abbasid Caliphate. But that's too far away, and Constantinople was closer. And there was the high number of Greek Christians from the more affluent Crimea living in Kievan territories. If the Rus were ever going to adopt a new religion, then by this stage it was going to be Christianity.
 
With all that in mind, I don't see why Vladimir would have needed to choose any alternate religions.

Maybe, if Vladimir doesn't want to be subdued by any power.

I mean, in OTL, Vladimir became a kind of vassal of Byzantium. If he chosen Rome - he would be subdued to Pope or Emperor. If he chosen Islam, he would be a kind of vassal of Abbasids or even Khwarezm.

But if Rus converts to Judaism, there is no any state or man what/who could be higher than Vladimir - Khazars are too weak.
 
Maybe, if Vladimir doesn't want to be subdued by any power.

I mean, in OTL, Vladimir became a kind of vassal of Byzantium. If he chosen Rome - he would be subdued to Pope or Emperor. If he chosen Islam, he would be a kind of vassal of Abbasids or even Khwarezm.

But if Rus converts to Judaism, there is no any state or man what/who could be higher than Vladimir - Khazars are too weak.

Valid Point
 
Maybe, if Vladimir doesn't want to be subdued by any power.

I mean, in OTL, Vladimir became a kind of vassal of Byzantium. If he chosen Rome - he would be subdued to Pope or Emperor. If he chosen Islam, he would be a kind of vassal of Abbasids or even Khwarezm.

But if Rus converts to Judaism, there is no any state or man what/who could be higher than Vladimir - Khazars are too weak.

Vladimir lived before the Great Schism between Rome and Constantinople occurred. The Russian Primary Chronicle, the source of his choosing religions, was writeen as late as 1113 CE.

The Grand Princes of Kiev and Novgorod were not vassals of Constantinople. The Church there was merely the source of all the missionary activity in that country. The Bulgarians were converted by Greek Byzantine priests, and this did not make them "vassals of Byzantium" anymore than they Rus were.

Even if Vladimir Sviatoslavovich did convert to Islam, it wouldn't have made him a vassal of the Abbasid Caliphate, anymore than the Volga Bulgars were. The Kievan Rus were too far from the Abbasids of Baghdad to control.

If Vladimir, for some reason chose Judaism, it wouldn't have continued after his death. It would have been seen as an eccentric act on his part, and one of his successors would have opted for the more politically-expedient conversion to Christianity anyway.

If you really want for their to be a powerful Jewish state in Russia, you would have to prevent the decline of the Khazar Khaganate.
 
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