WI: Kent State Massacre

Note the massacre part, instead of just Kent State Shootings.

What if the Kent State students had rushed Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio Nat. Guard on May 4th, 1970? My dad was young man back then, and remembers people suggesting it was *this* close to a riot that would have ended in bloodbath, and I read a quote from a survivor who said that if it wasn't for faculty who tried to control the students, potentially hundreds could have been shot.

Well, what would have happened? Would the "hippies" have become violent, gun-toting gangs all around the country, and riot in the streets? Would Ohio get out under martial law? Would this somehow be the end of the United States?
 
Note the massacre part, instead of just Kent State Shootings.

What if the Kent State students had rushed Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio Nat. Guard on May 4th, 1970? My dad was young man back then, and remembers people suggesting it was *this* close to a riot that would have ended in bloodbath, and I read a quote from a survivor who said that if it wasn't for faculty who tried to control the students, potentially hundreds could have been shot.

Well, what would have happened? Would the "hippies" have become violent, gun-toting gangs all around the country, and riot in the streets? Would Ohio get out under martial law? Would this somehow be the end of the United States?

The end of the United States... err no, most likely Nixon gets the boot earlier and Vietnam is wound up even faster.
 
The end of the United States... err no, most likely Nixon gets the boot earlier and Vietnam is wound up even faster.

I don't necessarily mean literally the end, but perhaps some sort of emergency law where colleges riot and are put under martial law, disrupting the entire nation. Possibly with more riots all across the nation?
 
Four students were killed, two of whom had nothing to do with the protest in the first place, so it certainly doesn't seem a mass charge on armed men was in the works.
 
I don't necessarily mean literally the end, but perhaps some sort of emergency law where colleges riot and are put under martial law, disrupting the entire nation. Possibly with more riots all across the nation?

Perhaps, depends on how bad you want the Riot and the massacre to be.

Just browsing the Wiki article on it. It states the some of the Protesters wanted to 'Bring the war home' if there was more of this feeling then there might just be more federal involvement to sort it out.
 

b12ox

Banned
You get hundreds of Charlie Manson hippy gangs across America cleaning trash cans at the back of superstores and slaying the pigs. That would require involvment of more than rock stars to lead them, more like a zombie head squad with brain control drugs.
 
Charles Manson gangs?! :eek: *mindblow*

Perhaps, depends on how bad you want the Riot and the massacre to be.

Four students were killed, two of whom had nothing to do with the protest in the first place, so it certainly doesn't seem a mass charge on armed men was in the works.

Actually, it was. Some of them were ready to suicide assault. Supposedly, only wise members of the faculty stopped it. Take away the faculty, and give two or three students deadly weapons, however improvised, and what might happen?
 

pnyckqx

Banned
Note the massacre part, instead of just Kent State Shootings.

What if the Kent State students had rushed Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio Nat. Guard on May 4th, 1970? My dad was young man back then, and remembers people suggesting it was *this* close to a riot that would have ended in bloodbath, and I read a quote from a survivor who said that if it wasn't for faculty who tried to control the students, potentially hundreds could have been shot.

Well, what would have happened? Would the "hippies" have become violent, gun-toting gangs all around the country, and riot in the streets? Would Ohio get out under martial law? Would this somehow be the end of the United States?
There are a lot of conflicting reports and conspiracy theories about what DID happen at Kent State.

Still, this much is certain: People don't charge into soldiers with loaded weapons who have already fired once without having weapons of their own so that they can shoot back.

Even at that age, common sense and/or enlightened self interest on one's survival takes charge.

i do have no doubt that more than four would have died though. There are never a shortage of Darwin Award Candidates.
 
The end of the United States... err no, most likely Nixon gets the boot earlier and Vietnam is wound up even faster.

No, more deaths at Kent State and violence resulting from the shootings will strengthen Nixon's position. A lot of people in the United States thought the deaths, while tragic, were justified—it seen as a bunch of spoiled draft-dodging college kids getting what they deserved. At the time there a widespread belief that law and order was breaking down across the country, and violent anti-war protests were seen as part of the problem.

The war was unpopular by this time and, paradoxically, so were the protests (and protesters). Many (if not most) working-class and middle-class Americans opposed the war, but they were also frightened by violent protests against the war.

More violence after Kent State means more people will support Nixon. Maybe by 1972 he is less worried about losing, so no break-in at the Watergate. No Watergate scandal means Nixon finishes out his term and leaves office in 1977 with several foreign policy successes to his credit.
 
No, more deaths at Kent State and violence resulting from the shootings will strengthen Nixon's position. A lot of people in the United States thought the deaths, while tragic, were justified—it seen as a bunch of spoiled draft-dodging college kids getting what they deserved. At the time there a widespread belief that law and order was breaking down across the country, and violent anti-war protests were seen as part of the problem.

The war was unpopular by this time and, paradoxically, so were the protests (and protesters). Many (if not most) working-class and middle-class Americans opposed the war, but they were also frightened by violent protests against the war.

More violence after Kent State means more people will support Nixon. Maybe by 1972 he is less worried about losing, so no break-in at the Watergate. No Watergate scandal means Nixon finishes out his term and leaves office in 1977 with several foreign policy successes to his credit.

That is very interesting. You're correct; my dad used to not like Vietnam (he was drafted, but the war ended just in time), but he hated the hippies even more.

The prospect of this possibly resulting in Nixon is successful is pretty interesting. Someone should write a TL. :D
 
That is very interesting. You're correct; my dad used to not like Vietnam (he was drafted, but the war ended just in time), but he hated the hippies even more.

The prospect of this possibly resulting in Nixon is successful is pretty interesting. Someone should write a TL. :D

Without a doubt an interesting scenario. A full two terms of Nixon, and him dealing with the full onset of stagflation and the gas crisis! No Watergate to make Americans stop trusting government. Lots of butterflies.
 
You can't seriously posit a scenario where the university faculty is not at the university while classes are in session.

As for weapons...improvised weapons for 2-3 students isn't going to convince the rest that they can take on equipped units of the Ohio National Guard.
 
Without a doubt an interesting scenario. A full two terms of Nixon, and him dealing with the full onset of stagflation and the gas crisis! No Watergate to make Americans stop trusting government. Lots of butterflies.

Now Watergate means... Wow. That butterflies pretty much all of modern politics.

You can't seriously posit a scenario where the university faculty is not at the university while classes are in session.

As for weapons...improvised weapons for 2-3 students isn't going to convince the rest that they can take on equipped units of the Ohio National Guard.

No, they don't have to be at the protest. Maybe they get really cowardly and flee early on.

My point with the 2-3 armed students was that they might kill or severely injure a member of the National Guard, which has huge repercussions.
 
It makes the guardmen's trigger happy behavior seem more justified, true.:(

As for how the faculty who, according to this thread, prevented a much greater disaster, suddenly turn cowardly at the start...
 
Given how the hippies behaved, and how little support they had among the general population, I'm not sure killing more of them would have much of an impact overall. Sure, the guardsmen will likely be put on trial for murder or manslaughter or something and just as likely aquitted. Spoiled middle-class kids might be a better description than college kids, even if colleges were politically charged.
 
Nixon won't be directly effected. After all, the National Guard troops were operating on State authority.

The Nixon administration might take a harder line on disruptive student protests, and Nixon might be slightly more popular.

Conversely things might go worse for Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes. He is term limited as Governor and was running for the US Senate. He narrowly lost the Republican Primary two days after Kent State, with a worse Kent state, he could lose by a larger margin. Large enough and it might kill his bid to return to the Governor's office in 1974.
 
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