WI. Kennedy refused loan of POLARIS to UK at Nassau Conference?

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
What if the UK Govt was refused the loan of POLARIS missiles by the Kennedy administration at the Nassau Conference in 1962?

What would be the consequences?

What are the UK options?

Could the UK develope it's own SLBM?

Could the UK go 50/50 with the French Govt building their own "force de frappe?"

What could be the effect on NATO?

Regards filers
 
Britain had cancelled Blue Steel mk2 and Blue Streak in favour of Skybolt and as Skybolt waned they were very keen on Polaris. Given they went to Nassau specifically to get Polaris I doubt they'd turn the offer down.

France was offered the Polaris as well as part of an empty gesture given they couldn't build the subs or the thermonuclear warheads.

Britain stated that if they didn't get Polaris they'd do whatever they needed to do keep a deterrent, most likely that would involve cooperation with France.
 
If the Nassau Conference end in fiasco and Robert McNamara order the deactivation of British PGM-17 Thor base in September 1963
it will poisoned the British US relation deeply.

A Option would be that France and Britain join forces
like Skybolt replacement by french solid rocket VE111L Topaze
Also french MRBM station on former British Thor base would be option
Join venture on development SLBM and it carrier submarine.
Even collaboration in Bomber and Fighter for RAF and France Airforce.
like BAC/Rolls-Royce/Dassault Mirage IVK a Mirage IV with hardware of TSR.2 or Mirage IIIK with British engine.

Is unbelievable who one men can make so big a mistakes and believe he is right ?
He [McNamara] single handedly destroyed the US British relation, driving them into the hands of the French.
He sell this as cost effective initiative for US !, While they build a European Defense pact, weakening NATO.
But what you expect from car salesman, becoming the secretary of Defense ?

Richard M. Nixon during David Frost interview, 1977
 
Britain had cancelled Blue Steel mk2 and Blue Streak in favour of Skybolt and as Skybolt waned they were very keen on Polaris. Given they went to Nassau specifically to get Polaris I doubt they'd turn the offer down.
Depends. IIRC the Kennedy administration had some strong concerns about third party nuclear states outside themselves or the Soviets as they feared they could possibly drag them into a nuclear war, they had some odd ideas about trying to force the implementation of a multinational system of nuclear weapons which basically seems to have boiled down to the US retaining second key control over the launch of weapons. As others have said if the Nassau conference breaks down it poisons Anglo-American relations and pushes the British to develop their own missiles and submarines, I honestly just can't see them packing it all in.

The idea of working with the French is going to be very tempting since it's only been a couple of years since they tested their first nuclear device and would be another six before they were able to develop a thermonuclear one whilst the British have already developed theirs four years previously, the French picking up a large share of the costs in return for jumping ahead in their weapons programme seems likely. Knock-on effects likely include Britain remaining participants of the European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO) and their joining the European Economic Community (EEC) in the mid- to late-1960s.
 
Kennedy didn't have reservations about small powers independent nuclear deterrents but others in his administration with their own agendas to push did. I believe it was Rusk and his department that was pushing the Multi Lateral Force who spoke out against small deterrents and Mac did as well.

The point of doubt is if Kennedy would offer Polaris, not if Britain would accept it.
 

Archibald

Banned
I wonder how big was a Skybolt, and if a Mirage IVA could carry one semi-recessed under the belly... EDIT: the Skybolt was enormously bigger than the AN-11. The Mirage IVA certainly couldn't carry it.
 
I wonder how big was a Skybolt, and if a Mirage IVA could carry one semi-recessed under the belly... EDIT: the Skybolt was enormously bigger than the AN-11. The Mirage IVA certainly couldn't carry it.
There were serious studies of strapping a pair of Skybolts to the TSR.2. The results would have done Heath Robinson proud - the most feasible option was inverted overwing carriage due to ground clearance. Since Skybolt's star tracker was on the upper side when carried normally, the TSR.2 would have had to roll inverted just before launch to allow the missile guidance to work. :eek:
 
There were serious studies of strapping a pair of Skybolts to the TSR.2. The results would have done Heath Robinson proud - the most feasible option was inverted overwing carriage due to ground clearance. Since Skybolt's star tracker was on the upper side when carried normally, the TSR.2 would have had to roll inverted just before launch to allow the missile guidance to work. :eek:
Sounds vaguely like the old Phoenix surveillance drone that had to roll inverted, switch off it's engine, and then descend via parachute upside down to protect the underslung sensors to land. Now I get that this was in part to give it the ability, in concert with rail-launch from its transport truck, to be launched and recovered zero-length without the need for prepared ground but mainly because they came the baffling decision to build it with a tractor propeller - there's a reason the Open University uses it as an example of a badly run development programme. This in a similar time period when other unmanned aerial vehicles like the Teledyne Ryan 410 and AAI RQ-2 Pioneer were also be developed and entering service. Here's to you "Bugger-off" drone! :) But I digress.
 
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