WI: Juche Kurdistan

The Kurdish Juche regime will not try to eradicate Islam in Kurdistan. It will just reduce it to a private matter, like in Kazakhstan. It will only ban hijabs, female genital mutilation, calls to prayer from minarets and segregation of genders in public. And I know that female genital mutilation is very widespread in South (Iraqi) Kurdistan, that's why it will be banned. The Kurdish Juche regime will not force anybody to convert to Zoroastrianism, but it will promote it as part of Kurdistan's cultural heritage.

Azadi
If you listen closely you can already hear the masses singing Iran Iran.
 

azadi

Banned
I consider a North Korea-style Juche regime in Kurdistan unlikely, but I think it's interesting to explore how its ideology will be, because Juche in many other countries has been discussed on AH.com, even Juche in Norway, and Sjølberging (Juche) Norway lead by Varg Vikernes, a neo-Nazi who has arsoned numerous churches in majority Christian Norway, sounds to me far less plausible than a Juche Kurdistan, which promotes Zoroastrianism as part of Kurdistan's cultural heritage, while not persecuting Muslim Kurds. PKK has in OTL promoted Zoroastrianism as part of Kurdistan's cultural heritage.

But I consider a more moderate nationalist socialist regime in Kurdistan very likely.

Azadi
 
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azadi

Banned
It would still support Iraqi attempts to reannex Kurdistan


Given how Hostile the surrounding countries were to communism I doubt that would work.

A Soviet Puppet Kurdish republic in Northern Iran won't be international recognized.


Because they won't be international recognized and surrounded by hostile neighbors. They would have status similar to Novorossiya but no outside backers or a coast. If you want an independent Kurdistan have it be created after world war 1 by the British.

I dont want to discuss whether Kurdish independence is possible in this thread. Anybody who is opposed to Kurdish independence is advised to leave this thread.

Azadi
 

azadi

Banned
No, I appreciate constructive criticism of my ideas. But I am not interested in discussing whether Kurdish independence is possible in this thread. The purpose of this thread is discussing the ideology of Juche Kurdistan, not discussion about Kurdish independence in general. I want those posting in this thread to present detailed arguments against the ideology of Juche Kurdistan rather than claiming that Kurdish independence is impossible.

Azadi
 
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azadi

Banned
So whats the point of posting this, a circle jerk of Zoroastrian kurdistan? So if we dont agree with this we should fuck off okay then.
It is not directed towards you, but towards Noscoper, which has consistently expressed anti-Kurdish viewpoints in his posts on this thread. If somebody dislikes Kurdistan, why do they comment on threads about the ideology of the regime of an ATL independent Kurdish state?

Azadi
 
Perhaps a surviving Republic of Mahabad could result in this.

The Soviets proped up a Kurdish Socialist Republic in the aftermath of WW2 while they occupied Iran. When they withdrew it collapsed but with more Soviet support it could certainly have survived. The POD could be an earlier start to the Cold War? In that case the USSR would be less willing to give into Anglo-American demands in the Middle East, and might even invest in the Kurdish state because of it’s strategic location.

If this state survives the Cold War as a soviet puppet it could became the Belerus, or North Korea of the Middle East.
 

azadi

Banned
The problem with the Republic of Mahabad surviving as a POD for the establishment of a Juche Kurdistan is that the Republic of Mahabad wasn't a communist state, despite being allied with the USSR. But it may have developed into being a Soviet-style Communist state had it survived. In that case, it would likely have survived the collapse of the USSR and would resemble Belarus today. It will be a secular state with a socialist planned economy as of 2018.
Another POD for the establishment for Juche Kurdistan is the Iraqi political crisis in 1959 developing into an Iraqi Civil war between Communists and anti-Communists. The leadership of the Iraqi Communist Party was disproportionally Kurdish at that time, and the Iraqi Communist Party was more popular in South (Iraqi) Kurdistan than in Iraq proper. An Iraqi Civil War in 1959 may lead to the division of Iraq between the People's Republic of Iraq comprising South (Iraqi) Kurdistan and ruled by the Iraqi Communist Party and the Republic of Iraq comprising Iraq proper and ruled by anti-Communists. The Iraqi Communist Party will after the division of Iraq become split between a wing supporting Kurdish independence and a wing supporting a united Communist Iraq. The Kurdish separatist wing of the Iraqi Communist Party will purge the wing supporting Iraq, and the victorious Kurdish separatist wing of the Iraqi Communist Party will declare the independence of the People's Republic of Kurdistan and will rename the Iraqi Communist Party into the Communist Party of Kurdistan. The People's Republic of Kurdistan will survive the collapse of the USSR and will resemble Belarus today. It will be a secular state with a socialist planned economy as of 2018.

Azadi
 
Juche Kurdistan is impossible. It won't last 10 years. Considering even Iraqi-Kurds fought among themselves, imagine what kind of a horror Civil War would break out between the Juche government and opposition. Thank God it isn't real because alternatives to a Middle Eastern North Korea is a second Afghanistan, a radical Islamist one.

But about the misconceptions...
- Juche is pretty much anti religion and a cultist style of government. Promoting Zoroastrianism is as Kim Jong Un promoting Buddhism. At best you get a Juche Leader promoting a personality cult about himself.

- Kurdistan and North Korea are too different. North Korea is not as mountainous as Kurdistan. North Korea is not religiously and ethnically diverse as Kurdistan. North Korea has three borders of whom two are allies. Kurdistan is bordered with hostile states ready to intervene abd turn it into a hell.

- Kurdistan has too much tribes and allegiances to have one strong authority, especially a Juche one. It is too close to turn into Civil War or Coup'ed out of power

- Kurdistan is about 75-85% Sunni Muslims. Islam in general is hostile towards atheism or Juche style cults. North Korea's Buddhism was easier to turn the populace towards Atheism and personality cults
 

azadi

Banned
I too consider Juche Kurdistan unlikely. I just wanted to explore how the ideology of a Kurdish Juche regime will be. But as mentioned in my previous posts in this thread, I consider Sjølberging (Juche) Norway lead by Varg Vikernes, a neo-Nazi who has arsoned multiple Christian churches in majority Christian Norway, which is discussed in another thread on AH.com, even more unlikely than Juche Kurdistan.

I have in my previous posts clarified that Juche Kurdistan will tolerate Islam as a personal faith, but ban hijabs, calls to prayer from minarets, female genital mutilation and segregation of genders in public spaces. I have decided to remove the ban against calls to prayer from minarets, which was inspired by a Swiss referendum on banning minarets in Switzerland. Banning calls to prayer from minarets will be seen as a significant limitation on freedom of religion by practicing Muslim Kurds. But banning hijabs, female genital mutilation and segregation of genders in public spaces will increase women's rights in Kurdistan. Hijabs are banned in Kazakhstan, a majority Muslim country, and were banned by Atatürk and Reza Shah, both leaders of majority Muslim countries. The PKK has banned female genital mutilation in the Kurdish regions in Syria. The PKK has promoted Zoroastrianism as a part of Kurdistan's cultural heritage.

I have in my previous posts mentioned Bolivia and Belarus as more likely models than North Korea for a nationalist socialist Kurdistan. Bolivia: A Kurdish analogue to Bolivian Indigenismo. Belarus: A Belarusian level of authoritarianism in Kurdistan.

Azadi
 
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No, I appreciate constructive criticism of my ideas. But I am not interested in discussing whether Kurdish independence is possible in this thread. The purpose of this thread is discussing the ideology of Juche Kurdistan, not discussion about Kurdish independence in general. I want those posting in this thread to present detailed arguments against the ideology of Juche Kurdistan rather than claiming that Kurdish independence is impossible.

Azadi

I think that the questions of how a nation becomes independent, and how it then stays independent are pretty important if not crucial in terms of considering how its political and administrative systems work. North Korea is the product of its history, and so is Norway, for example. Neither, as it is in 2018, can really be explained fully if we don't know how it became independent, and through which adversities it retained its independence. It is my view, then, that considering a "Juche Kurdistan" in isolation, without knowing what its history of development is, how it became "Juche Kurdistan", is sort of fruitless, a stab in the dark if you may. IMHO you should start with the history of how Kurdistan gained it independence and go on from there.
 
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azadi

Banned
It is directed at Noscoper, who has consistently claimed that Kurdish independence is impossible and refused to consider my arguments for why Turkey may accept the existence of an independent South (Iraqi) Kurdistan. You have a point, but I just wanted to explore the ideology of a Juche Kurdistan based on Kurdish culture and religion and the Kurds' view of other nations, and I consider Juche Kurdistan unlikely. But I have mentioned the 1959 political crisis in Iraq as a potential POD for the establishment of Juche Kurdistan.

Azadi
 
which has consistently expressed anti-Kurdish viewpoints in his posts on this thread. If somebody dislikes Kurdistan,
Saying that independent Kurdistan craved out by force is impossible or unlikely isn't anti-Kurdish or means I don't like Kurdistan. I also offered a POD which would guarantee an independent Kurdistan with Kurdish parts of Iraq,Syria, and Turkey which wouldn't be a threat to or have issues with those nations and only has territorial claims on Iran and would certainly ally with Iraq against Iran in the cold war.
 

azadi

Banned
I assumed that you are anti-Kurdish because you have refused to consider my arguments for why Turkey might accept an independent South (Iraqi) Kurdistan. I advise you to read my links to Rudaw and Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar) earlier in this thread.

But if you refuse to consider the possibility of an independent Kurdish state, I will still advise you to leave this thread. The subject discussed in this thread (Juche Kurdistan) is only meaningful in the context of an ATL independent Kurdish state or a future independent Kurdish state. I considers claiming that Kurdish independence is impossible or unlikely a derailment of this thread.

But I apologize for calling you anti-Kurdish if you are not personally opposed to Kurdish independence.

Azadi
 
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I assumed that you are anti-Kurdish because you have refused to consider my arguments for why Turkey might accept an independent South (Iraqi) Kurdistan. I advise you to read my links to Rudaw and Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar) earlier in this thread.
Do you have anything post-Kurdish independence referendum or during the cold war ?

The subject discussed in this thread (Juche Kurdistan) is only meaningful in the context of an ATL independent Kurdish state or a future independent Kurdish state.

If you go with the POD I suggested,a Kingdom of Kurdistan could be overthrown by Communists and would have an ally in Syria and a surviving Ba'athist Iraq and post-cold war Turkey wouldn't care. However it wouldn't have any issues with Arabs or Turks and would see Iran as it's primary enemy.
 

azadi

Banned
Do you have anything post-Kurdish independence referendum or during the cold war ?
The Rudaw article is post-Kurdish independence referendum. And you haven't commented on the content of the articles. Why? Are they not interesting?

f you go with the POD I suggested,a Kingdom of Kurdistan could be overthrown by Communists and would have an ally in Syria and a surviving Ba'athist Iraq and post-cold war Turkey wouldn't care. However it wouldn't have any issues with Arabs or Turks and would see Iran as it's primary enemy.

Very interesting idea. But Communist Kurdistan will be pro-Zionist and will not be a natural ally of non-Communist and anti-Zionist Ba'athism. And if a Hashemite kingdom is established in Kurdistan and is overthrown by a communist revolution, Communist Kurdistan will be very anti-Arab. And Great Britain establishing an independent Kurdistan post-WW1 is unlikely unless Atatürk is defeated. I prefer timelines with an independent Kurdish state alongside Atatürk's Republic of Turkey and with Turkish control of Istanbul and Izmir. I have great sympathy for Atatürk (despite my antipathy for his repression of the Kurdish language and of Kurdish culture) and the Republic of Turkey. My preferred POD for Communist Kurdistan is an Iraqi Civil War in 1959. But Great Britain having a change of heart and making South (Iraqi) Kurdistan an independent British mandate with Hashemite prince Zeid as king after an Atatürk victory in the Turkish War of Independence is a very interesting POD for Communist Kurdistan. The Kurdish Republic of Mahabad surviving and a decisive Iranian victory in the Iraq-Iran war are also interesting PODs.

Azadi
 
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Interesting ideas.
In my Century of the Common Man TL in working, I've thought about the possibility of setting up an independent Kurdistan by the late 1920s as a consequence of Turkey losing its independence war to Greeks and Armenians.
Armenia would have an Israel like mentality in matter of foreign and defense policy with a strategical "paranoia" due to the Armenian genocide.
ITTL, the context of a friendly SR Russia to Armenia prevented Turkey from invading Armenia as it did IOTL, and the setbacks against Greece led to diverting forces from the Armenian border, allowing an Armenian breakout, supported with British and French tanks, to take Trabzon, Erzincan and Van within the Wilsonian borders.
Now, Turkey would not immediatly lose Kurdistan in the war, but the weakened Turkish state would find it increasingly difficult to enforce rule over Kurdistan, now a sailient between Armenia and northern Iraq. My idea has been to expand upon the OTL Kurdish uprisings that took place in the 1920s, to see them more or less covertly supported, trained, armed and funded by Armenia which would be seeking to secure its southern border with an ally of its own against Turkey.

How do you think that could go with a Juche Kurdistan here?
There may not be Communist Russia, but the socialist ideology is not yet absent (Russia is controlled by SRs), and I don't see elements (radical secularism, promotion of Zoroastrian culture, socialist economy, cult of personality, authoritarianism, dynasty) that can't appear on their own in this environment.
 
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