WI: Joseph Johnston killed at Seven Pines

At the Battle of Seven Pines/Fair Oaks, General Joseph E Johnston was wounded by a cannonball and subsequently replaced by Robert E Lee. What if Johnston was instead killed by that cannonball? What effects would this have on the war, mainly in the west?
 
Johnston's authority did give him some command over Bragg and Pemberton, with no JJ I guess Bragg remains the ultimate commander of the West, unless Davis is really convinced that Beauregard is the one he needs and is really left with no other choice. But he really hated Beauregard, So i guess that Bragg is the man.

DOn't suppose Davis could somehow convince Samuel Cooper to go west...
 
Johnston's authority did give him some command over Bragg and Pemberton, with no JJ I guess Bragg remains the ultimate commander of the West, unless Davis is really convinced that Beauregard is the one he needs and is really left with no other choice. But he really hated Beauregard, So i guess that Bragg is the man.

DOn't suppose Davis could somehow convince Samuel Cooper to go west...
Would Bragg still command the AOT as commander of the West? Or might he delegate that to someone else? Especially once the Vicksburg campaign begins.
 
Would Bragg still command the AOT as commander of the West? Or might he delegate that to someone else? Especially once the Vicksburg campaign begins.
It certainly is possible for Bragg to command both the department and army. After all, both Grant and Rosecrans led their own respective department and army on the field. I would think it the more likely result when one considers his subordinates: Bragg was not on good terms with his immediate subordinates, and would be disinclined to let them take command of the Army of Tennessee.

Alternatively, one could have Kirby Smith take over the Army of Tennessee, as, at the time of formation of the Department of the West, he was not yet assigned to the Trans-Mississippi Department. Kirby Smith was an effective administrator, but a flawed strategist and a question mark as a tactician.
 
It certainly is possible for Bragg to command both the department and army. After all, both Grant and Rosecrans led their own respective department and army on the field. I would think it the more likely result when one considers his subordinates: Bragg was not on good terms with his immediate subordinates, and would be disinclined to let them take command of the Army of Tennessee.

Alternatively, one could have Kirby Smith take over the Army of Tennessee, as, at the time of formation of the Department of the West, he was not yet assigned to the Trans-Mississippi Department. Kirby Smith was an effective administrator, but a flawed strategist and a question mark as a tactician.
It's crazy to think how removing one player can drastically effect the way a war plays out. Without Johnston, the entire command structure of the west is thrown up in the air.
 
It's crazy to think how removing one player can drastically effect the way a war plays out. Without Johnston, the entire command structure of the west is thrown up in the air.
Well, to be fair, you did just kill off one of the most senior commanders of the Confederacy. It's like asking how the command structure of the U.S. Army in WW2 would be if Marshall just suddenly died.
 
Well, to be fair, you did just kill off one of the most senior commanders of the Confederacy. It's like asking how the command structure of the U.S. Army in WW2 would be if Marshall just suddenly died.
True. But when one thinks of Johnston, it isn't usually as commander of the west. It's usually as either commander of the ANV or AOT at Atlanta.
 
True. But when one thinks of Johnston, it isn't usually as commander of the west. It's usually as either commander of the ANV or AOT at Atlanta.
I guess so. Johnston's role in the Vicksburg campaign and its consequences on the Tullahoma Campaign are fairly overlooked by historians/public. The use of 2 Infantry Divisions and 1 Cavalry Division from the Army of Tennessee for absolutely no gain whatsoever was certainly not the best way to spend troops.
 
Not having Joe Johnston as commander of the Department of the West would likely make no major changes because he did little in the role other than quartermaster's work - because his authority wasn't clearly defined and he wasn't entirely comfortable with the correct ettiquette of how to use the powers of his office anyway. The one area where it could have a significant effect is in regards to Earl Van Dorn's cavalry, which Johnston had ordered to Bragg after Murfreeboro and might remain in Mississippi opposing Grant at Vicksburgh instead had someone else been in that role or if it had merely remain defunct.
 
Not having Joe Johnston as commander of the Department of the West would likely make no major changes because he did little in the role other than quartermaster's work - because his authority wasn't clearly defined and he wasn't entirely comfortable with the correct ettiquette of how to use the powers of his office anyway. The one area where it could have a significant effect is in regards to Earl Van Dorn's cavalry, which Johnston had ordered to Bragg after Murfreeboro and might remain in Mississippi opposing Grant at Vicksburgh instead had someone else been in that role or if it had merely remain defunct.
I completely disagree. With the things you said right there, there would be a huge difference. An alternate commander of the west would perhaps use his authority more often than Johnston did and change a great many things.
 
I completely disagree. With the things you said right there, there would be a huge difference. An alternate commander of the west would perhaps use his authority more often than Johnston did and change a great many things.

Bragg and Pemberton acted independently of the Department Commander's authority, and Davis failed to re-establish the Department Commander's authority over them because he still permitted them to bypass that office entirely and send their reports and request straight to Richmond.

Anybody who becomes Department Commander will have to deal with the same problem where their authority to act has not been fully recognized and Davis will be able to overrule them on any matter - as an example, neither Bragg or Johnston wanted to send Carter Stevenson's big division to Mississippi on the eve of Murfreesboro but Davis did so inspite of their opposition, and Johnston had wanted to reorganize the department into two smaller department but was prevented from doing so by Davis who didn't think it was a good idea.

That Johnston did little more than quartermasterly work during his time as Department Commander was as much a reflection of Davis's reluctance to give away any real power as it was a reflection of Johnston's own sensibilities.

Also, the Department Commander's job was reactivated as a consequence of Johnston declaring himself fit for service and if he's dead there's no reason to believe Davis simply wouldn't keep it defunct and handle thing himself as he had been doing previously, which means there would be even less reason to expect any major differences in 1863.
 
Bragg and Pemberton acted independently of the Department Commander's authority, and Davis failed to re-establish the Department Commander's authority over them because he still permitted them to bypass that office entirely and send their reports and request straight to Richmond.

Anybody who becomes Department Commander will have to deal with the same problem where their authority to act has not been fully recognized and Davis will be able to overrule them on any matter - as an example, neither Bragg or Johnston wanted to send Carter Stevenson's big division to Mississippi on the eve of Murfreesboro but Davis did so inspite of their opposition, and Johnston had wanted to reorganize the department into two smaller department but was prevented from doing so by Davis who didn't think it was a good idea.

That Johnston did little more than quartermasterly work during his time as Department Commander was as much a reflection of Davis's reluctance to give away any real power as it was a reflection of Johnston's own sensibilities.

Also, the Department Commander's job was reactivated as a consequence of Johnston declaring himself fit for service and if he's dead there's no reason to believe Davis simply wouldn't keep it defunct and handle thing himself as he had been doing previously, which means there would be even less reason to expect any major differences in 1863.
But with Johnston dead, would Davis feel more comfortable giving Bragg power since he liked him?
 
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