WI Joseph II was as conservative as Maria Theresia?

Joseph II, the eldest son of Maria Theresia and her sucessor, was a great proponent of enlightened absolutism. Throughout his reign he tried to reform his domain with various reforms based on the principles of Enlightenment, but ultimately most of his programmes failed, prompting Joseph to ask for his tombstone epitaph to be "Here lies Joseph II, who failed in all he undertook."

So what if Joseph II was less infatuated with Enlightenment and more conservative, like his mother Empress Maria Theresia?
 
Maria Theresa was arguably as big a fan of the enlightenment as Joseph was - the difference was that Joseph was a far more abrasive personality and far more impatient.

Avoiding Joseph's abrasive impatience in the late 18th Century absolutely revolutionizes the Hapsburg realms. The man was an absolute disaster for his subjects (not only because of the above mentioned faults, but also because he had the chutzpah to go and die early - had he sat on the throne longer, he could well have seen through most of his reforms).

Also, the French have a very hard time fighting the Hapsburgs if there is any revolutionary war equivalent. Joseph's "reforms" and wars gutted the army just before the Revolution.

fasquardon
 
Maria Theresa was arguably as big a fan of the enlightenment as Joseph was - the difference was that Joseph was a far more abrasive personality and far more impatient.

Avoiding Joseph's abrasive impatience in the late 18th Century absolutely revolutionizes the Hapsburg realms. The man was an absolute disaster for his subjects (not only because of the above mentioned faults, but also because he had the chutzpah to go and die early - had he sat on the throne longer, he could well have seen through most of his reforms).

Also, the French have a very hard time fighting the Hapsburgs if there is any revolutionary war equivalent. Joseph's "reforms" and wars gutted the army just before the Revolution.

fasquardon

Question is, how exactly did Joseph II die?
 
Joseph II, the eldest son of Maria Theresia and her sucessor, was a great proponent of enlightened absolutism. Throughout his reign he tried to reform his domain with various reforms based on the principles of Enlightenment, but ultimately most of his programmes failed, prompting Joseph to ask for his tombstone epitaph to be "Here lies Joseph II, who failed in all he undertook."

So what if Joseph II was less infatuated with Enlightenment and more conservative, like his mother Empress Maria Theresia?

He loathed the French revolution and would have become more reactionary if he lived longer (He warned his sister , because he foresaw something like this) . What would/could he have done regarding the safety of his sister, the French King´s wife ?
 
He loathed the French revolution and would have become more reactionary if he lived longer (He warned his sister , because he foresaw something like this) . What would/could he have done regarding the safety of his sister, the French King´s wife ?

Joseph was the arch absolutist - he was always going to be the enemy of the mob rule in France (poles apart from his brother, who seems to have had a real respect for representative forms of government).

I am really not sure what he could have done to help his sister though - just as it played out in OTL, the royal couple couldn't accept Hapsburg help while there was still time, since that would kill them politically. Also, the Hapsburg armies were exhausted from the war with the Turks, meaning whatever else happens, any intervention is always going to be limited in its power. Plus, if Joseph lives longer, the war with the Turks may last longer, meaning the Hapsburgs are left unable to intervene in France at all (though that is probably a blessing in disguise).

fasquardon
 
Maria Theresa was arguably as big a fan of the enlightenment as Joseph was - the difference was that Joseph was a far more abrasive personality and far more impatient.

Avoiding Joseph's abrasive impatience in the late 18th Century absolutely revolutionizes the Hapsburg realms. The man was an absolute disaster for his subjects (not only because of the above mentioned faults, but also because he had the chutzpah to go and die early - had he sat on the throne longer, he could well have seen through most of his reforms).

Also, the French have a very hard time fighting the Hapsburgs if there is any revolutionary war equivalent. Joseph's "reforms" and wars gutted the army just before the Revolution.

fasquardon

Just a question; if Joseph had died earlier, would Leopold II have been a better ruler?
 
Just a question; if Joseph had died earlier, would Leopold II have been a better ruler?

From what I have read about Leopold II so far, he does sound a far better ruler - that he managed to clean up so much of the melt-down that his brother left upon his death does speak well of his competence. I'm still searching for a good biography of him though.

fasquardon
 
Maria Theresa was arguably as big a fan of the enlightenment as Joseph was - the difference was that Joseph was a far more abrasive personality and far more impatient.
IIRC Joseph's younger brother and successor the future Leopold II was a similar supporter of reforming the state and enlightened absolutism in the spirit of his parents if his rule of Tuscany, albeit a simpler situation, and Austria are anything to go by - his main challenges in Austria being having to roll back some of Joseph's more precipitous reforms and generally calm down/win back over the support of certain sections of society. If Joseph was a bit more calm and methodical about things in turn being followed by Leopold for a run of three reforming monarchs then I think it could be very interesting for the Austrian Empire.
 
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