WI: John Tzimiskes lives longer

So John Tzimiskes was a very successful emperor during his short reign of a little over 6 years. He died returning from a very fruitful campaign against the Abbasids, to be succeeded by Basil II Bulgar Slayer. So what could be the consequences of him living, say a decade or so longer?
 
If he had proceeded with his intention of curbing the power of the great landowners successfully, it would have had great ramifications for the long-term health of the Empire.
Dealing with the rebellion of several of the Anatolian landowning elite, which occurred in the early years of Basil II's reign (and apparently grew out of John's policy and which led to his assassination), could have very likely been the lot of John's to deal with.
 
If he had proceeded with his intention of curbing the power of the great landowners successfully, it would have had great ramifications for the long-term health of the Empire.
Dealing with the rebellion of several of the Anatolian landowning elite, which occurred in the early years of Basil II's reign (and apparently grew out of John's policy and which led to his assassination), could have very likely been the lot of John's to deal with.

But would he have had any better success than Basil II did?

Also, Basil II is the legitimate emperor (so far as that means anything) - he's unlikely to be entirely comfortable with John continuing to rule now that he's an adult.

And the Macedonian dynasty is extremely popular, plus John is - in name at least - ruling on behalf of Basil and Constantine.

Complications in store.
 
But would he have had any better success than Basil II did?

Also, Basil II is the legitimate emperor (so far as that means anything) - he's unlikely to be entirely comfortable with John continuing to rule now that he's an adult.

And the Macedonian dynasty is extremely popular, plus John is - in name at least - ruling on behalf of Basil and Constantine.

Complications in store.

That is the question. I think the answer is "no evidence to show that he would".
Complications in store --- almost a certainty.
 
Making this very interesting. Add Basil having a son into the mix thanks to a longer reign of John would make this perfect.
That's a cool idea. John Tzimiskes could defeat the Abbasids and take Syria, Basil would defeat the Bulgarians, the border guards would advance into Italy and Armenia, and Basil's son would expand back into Jerusalem and Egypt.

Why are you so obsessed with Basil II having a son?
He's obsessed just for making a post about it? :p
 
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That's a cool idea. John Tzimiskes could defeat the Abbasids and take Syria, Basil would defeat the Bulgarians, the border guards would advance into Italy and Armenia, and Basil's son would expand back into Jerusalem and Egypt.

I notice how Basil and John somehow manage to work smoothly together, despite all the obvious problems.
 
I notice how Basil and John somehow manage to work smoothly together, despite all the obvious problems.
Basil II knew to ally with powerful forces inside and outside of the Empire. Why wouldn't they be able to work together for a few years?

Any historical evidence to the contrary?
 
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Basil II knew to ally with powerful forces inside and outside of the Empire. Why wouldn't they be able to work together for a few years?

Any historical evidence to the contrary?

Here's the problem:

Basil: I am the Emperor. Step down, Tzimiskes.

John: Lol no.

Basil: Are you questioning my authority?

John: Boy, do I need to remind you that the army likes me a lot more than it likes you?

Basil: Fuck you.

John: :D

As for evidence on how Basil would treat John: See how Basil treated someone who wasn't even claiming his title (Basil the Chamberlain) - I can't seriously imagine Basil is going to happily accept being de facto junior emperor after reaching his majority, which John is most likely going to expect.

Is it impossible for them to work together? No. But this is a very serious issue.
 
As for evidence on how Basil would treat John: See how Basil treated someone who wasn't even claiming his title (Basil the Chamberlain) - I can't seriously imagine Basil is going to happily accept being de facto junior emperor after reaching his majority, which John is most likely going to expect.

Is it impossible for them to work together? No. But this is a very serious issue.
But when Emperor Basil exiled Basil the Chamberlain, it was after Basil the Chamberlain was rumored to have killed John Tzimiskes, and after the general Skleros rebelled. So he probably exiled the eunuch Basil out of paranoia of getting killed, rather than paranoia of being replaced as Emperor.

Also, if Tzimiskes and Basil fight against the Anatolian landowners together, which they probably would have to, that will strengthen their alliance.
 
But when Emperor Basil exiled Basil the Chamberlain, it was after Basil the Chamberlain was rumored to have killed John Tzimiskes, and after the general Skleros rebelled. So he probably exiled the eunuch Basil out of paranoia of getting killed, rather than paranoia of being replaced as Emperor.

Also, if Tzimiskes and Basil fight against the Anatolian landowners together, which they probably would have to, that will strengthen their alliance.


A few other minor points as well. Basil the chambermaid ruled for 10 years or thereabouts before the emperor was becoming uppity during which times half the empire was in revolt making his authority weak and open to challenge from the emperor. Also when Basil II did make his move he was not the boy barely in his majority but a man of almost thirty and a lot more seasoned. Basil challenging anyone at a young age is much less likely especially considering his charachter at the time which was much more like his brother, easy to control and pleasure loving. So if John manages to stay alive somehow its likely he´ll get at least 10 years before problem starts to get beyond what can be managed. Also he is as much emperor as Basil is at that point and a popular to boot. Basil isnt a dumbass like his brother and wont go charging in on a fools quest. Incidently this PoD is likely to end up with Basil getting married since John would likely steer him in that direction to strengthen one alliance or another since he himself isnt likely to get any issue.
 
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A few other minor points as well. Basil the chambermaid ruled for 10 years or thereabouts before the emperor was becoming uppity during which times half the empire was in revolt making his authority weak and open to challenge from the emperor. Also when Basil II did make his move he was not the boy barely in his majority but a man of almost thirty and a lot more seasoned. Basil challenging anyone at a young age is much less likely.
I disagree.
"For years, at least since the death of Romanos II in 968, members of the military aristocracy, who ruled in the name of the legitimate Macedonian emperors, ahd controleled the empire. Now, in 976, the domestikos Bardos skleros expected to continue that tradition, and he rose in revolt when Basil II declared himself fit to rule on his own." (my bolding)

http://books.google.com/books?id=KIFJiOCSYc8C&pg=PA271&lpg=PA271&dq=Basil+II+ruled+in+his+own+name&source=bl&ots=n67_euv-nG&sig=Z9lUNyWSgTeK5-rxL6BIxE_iTis&hl=en&sa=X&ei=COejUpGtOcvioASv9YHIBw&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Basil%20II%20ruled%20in%20his%20own%20name&f=false

So Basil is stating from eighteen on that he is not okay with someone taking John's place. Why would he be okay with John continuing to dominate affairs?

At best, this is going to take up time and energy for both men. At worst, one of them is going to die.

Related to the chamberlain: That he lasted nine years after possibly poisoning John does not suggest Basil expected to be poisoned by him, but it does suggest that Basil had had enough of him. And that's someone who can't take the purple, whether Basil dies or no. John can keep it to himself by killing or blinding Basil.

So if John manages to stay alive somehow its likely he´ll get at least 10 years before problem starts to get beyond what can be managed. Also he is as much emperor as Basil is at that point and a popular to boot. Basil isnt a dumbass like his brother and wont go charging in on a fools quest. Incidently this PoD is likely to end up with Basil getting married since John would likely steer him in that direction to strengthen one alliance or another since he himself isnt likely to get any issue.
Not going in on a fool's quest doesn't mean very much when looking at how John got rid of Nicephorus II or Basil I got rid of certain people in his way.

And "can be managed" does not turn it into a nonissue that can be brushed aside as if they don't both intend to control the state's course.

I don't want to argue it would be impossible for them to get along, but two strong willed men each desiring supreme power is not a recipe for harmony.
 
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