WI: John Lennon not gunned down

Lennon was washed up musically, so it would actually hurt the Beatles prestige if they did more collaboration in the mid 80s into the 2000s. The Beatles were the 2nd biggest artist of the 2000s (#1 was eminem). That ain't happening with a washed-up Lennon being the front man and him and Paul known form making lousy songs seeking attention.

I mean, compare some of Harrison's later work to anything the rest of the Beatles put out. It ain't even a contest:
 
Lennon was washed up musically, so it would actually hurt the Beatles prestige if they did more collaboration in the mid 80s into the 2000s. The Beatles were the 2nd biggest artist of the 2000s (#1 was eminem). That ain't happening with a washed-up Lennon being the front man and him and Paul known form making lousy songs seeking attention.

I mean, compare some of Harrison's later work to anything the rest of the Beatles put out. It ain't even a contest:

George didn't write that song.

I'd stack McCartney's latter work against Harrison's. But yeah Lennon was done and would have been an embarrassment. I really doubt they'd have ever reunited. Possibly Live Aid, but maybe not even then. Given they didn't do the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame OTL they probably wouldn't have TTL either.
 
That's Paul's song, not John's.

Heavy rumors had it that they were going to reunite in 1981. A one-off concert in Central Park, apparently John had filled out paperwork. I saw that somewhere, don't know how true it is, though.

IIRC that was part of a lawsuit against one of the many Beatles jukebox musicals doing the rounds. John was against it because he thought it was tacky, but that wouldn't hold up in court so he said it would harm him financially as he was planning a Beatles reunion.

None of it true, of course. I mean, read his December 1980 Rolling Stone interview. Or the BBC radio interview from 2 days before he got shot. Or the Playboy interview from a few days earlier. He really wasn't about to pick up the phone to Macca.
 
What if SNL does another Beatles reunion stunt in 81 or 82 when it just happens all four are in the NYC area at the same time and they take it up this time?
 
George didn't write that song.

I'd stack McCartney's latter work against Harrison's. But yeah Lennon was done and would have been an embarrassment. I really doubt they'd have ever reunited. Possibly Live Aid, but maybe not even then. Given they didn't do the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame OTL they probably wouldn't have TTL either.

I really disagree to be honest. While it's true Starting Over is no great shakes as a album, this idea that Lennon dropped off after 72 is something I've never understood. Mind Games is a good album, and I would argue Walls and Bridges is actually his second best solo album.

Both George and Paul had periods were they were putting out good stuff and bad stuff, and the idea that Lennon was just done and would never make anything great again is silly. He'd have his up's and down's like any other artist. They'd probably reunite eventually for a one off charity event like live aid and do anthology. Don't think they'd ever make antoher album as the Beatles though.
 
I really disagree to be honest. While it's true Starting Over is no great shakes as a album, this idea that Lennon dropped off after 72 is something I've never understood. Mind Games is a good album, and I would argue Walls and Bridges is actually his second best solo album.

Both George and Paul had periods were they were putting out good stuff and bad stuff, and the idea that Lennon was just done and would never make anything great again is silly. He'd have his up's and down's like any other artist. They'd probably reunite eventually for a one off charity event like live aid and do anthology. Don't think they'd ever make antoher album as the Beatles though.

Yeah but John had gone 8 years without producing anything of much merit. POB and Imagine are very good (though Imagine is already quite a step down from POB), Some Time In New York City is embarrassing and it never really recovers.
He gave himself 5 years ‘off’, during which Paul is still putting out good work, though it declines as the 70s wears on. Comes back with an album half made up of dreck Yoko wrote, and a quarter with rubbish he wrote. Five years and he came out with maybe 3 songs to add to the canon, none of which are close to his classic work.

As for picking up after? You heard the stuff for Milk and Honey I assume? Living On Borrowed Time is John attempting reggae with a cod Jamaican accent which frankly makes my toes curl in embarrassment for him. And that’s arguably the best song on there.
 
Yeah but John had gone 8 years without producing anything of much merit. POB and Imagine are very good (though Imagine is already quite a step down from POB), Some Time In New York City is embarrassing and it never really recovers.
He gave himself 5 years ‘off’, during which Paul is still putting out good work, though it declines as the 70s wears on. Comes back with an album half made up of dreck Yoko wrote, and a quarter with rubbish he wrote. Five years and he came out with maybe 3 songs to add to the canon, none of which are close to his classic work.

As for picking up after? You heard the stuff for Milk and Honey I assume? Living On Borrowed Time is John attempting reggae with a cod Jamaican accent which frankly makes my toes curl in embarrassment for him. And that’s arguably the best song on there.

I'd say Mind games is only a slight step down from Imagine as a album and would rank Walls and Bridges as being just as good if not better so no I don't really agree.

Yes, Milk and Honey largely looked like Starting Over part 2 in quality, but Lennon was always in artist that looked for inspiration based on hat he was experiencing around him and seemed to produce his best work during times of great tribulation and change in his life. Domestic bliss with Yoko after years off to get rusty is hardly conductive to a great album, but those circumstances would change and he'd get back into his groove eventually.

Like compare McCartney's first five albums to the 5 Lennon produced. If Paul had been the one to drop dead after Venus and Mars we might be having this same conversation as after all:

McCartney is mostly a chronicle of a man having a nervous breakdown that, while it does have a certain down beat charm only really produced a single genuine classic in Maybe I'm Amazed.

Ram is actually really damn good, one of his best solo stuff.

Wild Life is representative of Paul's tendency to do just "ok" albums and seemingly making stuff just because he likes making it.

Red Rose Speedway is just a disaster from start to finish.

Band on the Run is his best solo album

Venus and Mars is...alright. Doesn't come out much better then Lennon to be honest.
 
I'd say Mind games is only a slight step down from Imagine as a album and would rank Walls and Bridges as being just as good if not better so no I don't really agree.

If you think Walls and Bridges is a better album than Imagine there’s not much I can say other than even amongst Lennon die hards that is a fringe view.

Yes, Milk and Honey largely looked like Starting Over part 2 in quality, but Lennon was always in artist that looked for inspiration based on hat he was experiencing around him and seemed to produce his best work during times of great tribulation and change in his life. Domestic bliss with Yoko after years off to get rusty is hardly conductive to a great album, but those circumstances would change and he'd get back into his groove eventually.

Assume Milk and Honey would have been released in 1982 and he’s gone 10 years without producing anything up to standard (your view that Walls and Bridges is just as good as Plastic Ono Band notwithstanding). Odds of a creative rebirth after a decade and 6 albums aren’t good.

Like compare McCartney's first five albums to the 5 Lennon produced. If Paul had been the one to drop dead after Venus and Mars we might be having this same conversation as after all:

McCartney is mostly a chronicle of a man having a nervous breakdown that, while it does have a certain down beat charm only really produced a single genuine classic in Maybe I'm Amazed.

Ram is actually really damn good, one of his best solo stuff.

Wild Life is representative of Paul's tendency to do just "ok" albums and seemingly making stuff just because he likes making it.

Red Rose Speedway is just a disaster from start to finish.

Band on the Run is his best solo album

Venus and Mars is...alright. Doesn't come out much better then Lennon to be honest.

Wild Life is very poor and Red Rose Speedway is 3 stars, though there are a few gems on there. RAM is exceptional and McCartney is a great record - it’s his Plastic Ono Band, deconstructing the Beatles myth by including song fragments, faltering vocals, and great tracks like Every Night, That Would Be Something and Junk which are basically demos. Then he rolls out the Abbey Road production on Maybe I’m Amazed. Superb.
Band on the Run is as you say his best work, Venus and Mars is a solid 4 star rock album.
 
This is an intriguing thread. Although it's been focused on the Beatles themselves (for the most part), it's gotten me thinking about other 60s & 70s musicians in the 80s.

If Lennon had survived and if he did not collaborate with the other Beatles, whom would he have worked with (besides Yoko)? How might that have affected his output? As I recall, he had worked with Elton John and with David Bowie, and (forget the source) he was intrigued by the B-52s' "Rock Lobster." Joni Mitchell was working with a number of people back then. Although she was very jazz-oriented around that time, I wonder what Lennon would have made of her (if he and Yoko had broken up).

Another 60s & 70s musician who experienced a revival in the 80s was Paul Simon. He makes for an interesting comparison with Lennon for various reasons. (For example, around the time of Double Fantasy, Simon came out with a really bad movie, One Trick Pony, complete with scenes of him taking out the trash. Imagine if that had been Simon's last project. We'd be doubting him, too.) I wonder if Lennon would have been capable of darting off in a new productive direction like Simon did with Graceland.

Thanks for considering these questions.
 
George didn't write that song.

I'd stack McCartney's latter work against Harrison's. But yeah Lennon was done and would have been an embarrassment. I really doubt they'd have ever reunited. Possibly Live Aid, but maybe not even then. Given they didn't do the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame OTL they probably wouldn't have TTL either.
Eh, George was still making songs with the traveling wilburies, even if Jeff Lynn was writing them all :)
 
Top