WI John Hunyadi doesnt die after the siege of Belgrad?

krieger

Banned
Casimir III changed his mind about that many times and planned a war just before he died.
Even if that is the fact, some Silesian dukes still participated in Polish Politics like Vladislaus of Opole and some asked for the help of the Polish king like Elizabeth of Cieszyn, as long as the ruler of Poland is not ethnic Polish it will not be claimed back.

Vladislaus of Opole was serving Hungarian king firstly, it is even supposed that he tried to annex Cuyavia to Hungary. It is not a good example. Casimir III didn't acheive a document granting him Silesia again. It doesn't matter if ruler of Poland is ethnic Polish.
 
If the defeat of Podebrady was that simple, Matthias would have taken Bohemia proper for himself OTL.
Matthias couldn't take Bohemia, because he was too cautious with his Black Army and didn't engage in a decisive battle. The Black Army was too important for his authority to risk it. Also, his tyrant reputation made him more enemies.
John wouldn't have to face such problems
ITTL Hunyady could invade, but he'd get the same area, which Matthias got - Moravia, Slovakia and Lusatia.
(Slovakia?) Even if that's the case, Vladislaus won't be preferred over László after Podebrady's death, so Bohemia would be acquired then.
And guarantees are impossible if Laszlo Hunyady wants support of Pope - Pius II declared them null IOTL and it was the reason of Podebrady deposition.
Alright. Fair point.
Knowing Matthias's personality and what he did with his regent OTL might this be a perfect set up to a son vs father fight?
Would Matthias still have such personality TTL though? His family wasn't killed and he wasn't imprisoned in Czechia. Also there's a difference between opposing your uncle and your father, especially if he's John Hunyadi himself. John would only want to fight anyway, Matthias' hands wouldn't be tied so drastically, eventually.
also have a hard time to imagine John Hunyadi fighting a war of conquest in Bohemia instead of fighting the turks.
Even he realised, that Hungary alone is not enough against the Turks, hence did he launch no major campaigns after 1448.
He's person is also quite romanticised imo. He was also just another magnate after all.
In which case, how about going on a counter-offensive after Belgrade
Some limited actions could be taken with the help of Brankovic. Maybe a siege of Galambóc(Golubac)?
But im not sure how bad the defeat was for the Ottomans. It was a serious blow but how serious im not capable of telling.
Well there wouldn't need to worry about a large army to come imo. Maybe the Rumelian bey could be an annoyance, but that's it.
 
Vladislaus of Opole was serving Hungarian king firstly, it is even supposed that he tried to annex Cuyavia to Hungary. It is not a good example. Casimir III didn't acheive a document granting him Silesia again. It doesn't matter if ruler of Poland is ethnic Polish.
Actually he was granted Czestochowa and Kuyavia, Casimir III did plan to war to regain Silesia despite of renunciation, there were two unsuccessful attempts of Polish rulers and consorts to regain Silesia it is Bona Sforza and Sobieski..
 

krieger

Banned
Matthias couldn't take Bohemia, because he was too cautious with his Black Army and didn't engage in a decisive battle. The Black Army was too important for his authority to risk it. Also, his tyrant reputation made him more enemies.
John wouldn't have to face such problems

You don't know if John would be liked by Bohemian nobility much more than Matthias. Czechs didn't care about Turks, so Belgrade victory would mean nothing to them. And if Black Army is not created it means that Hungarian army is a bit worse than IOTL. Black Army was a great achievement.

(Slovakia?) Even if that's the case, Vladislaus won't be preferred over László after Podebrady's death, so Bohemia would be acquired then.

I meant Silesia, Slovakia is a spelling mistake. I don't know. You forget that Casimir IV is still married to Elisabeth of Austria and there are still supporters of her rights among Hungarians themselves (there was actually a plot by cabal of Hungarian magnates to overthrow Matthias and replace him with Casimir "the Younger" Jagiellon, second son of Casimir IV). Hunyady himself was a supporter of Vladislaus III of Varna, so he would be cautious towards Jagiellons. He would not give up an Hungarian crown to them, but he could be willing to leave Bohemia to Jagiellons in exchange of them renouncing claim to Hungarian crown.

Actually he was granted Czestochowa and Kuyavia, Casimir III did plan to war to regain Silesia despite of renunciation, there were two unsuccessful attempts of Polish rulers and consorts to regain Silesia it is Bona Sforza and Sobieski.

And he tried to make it part of Hungary itself. Casimir III died before war could be enacted and it is suspected that it was war against Lithuania not against Bohemia. Bona's idea did not gather any support among Poles. Sobieski's was a joke.
 
Last edited:
And he tried to make it part of Hungary itself. Casimir III died before war could be enacted and it is suspected that it was war against Lithuania not against Bohemia. Bona's idea did not gather any support among Poles. Sobieski's was a joke.

I think if there is a claim for Poland for Silesia, they should reclaim Upper Silesia, basically Opole-Raciborz and Cieszyn since the roots of Vistula are there, parts of those duchies were reclaimed by Poland which are Czestochowa, Auschwitz, Zator and temporarily Opole-Raciborz, since their population remained Ethnic Polish.

Actually, the Habsburgs gave Opole and Cieszyn to Vasas and Saxons IOTL..so a return of Upper Silesia to Poland is not impossible - I think the Habsburgs are okay to return them to Poland AS long as Poland aligns with them.

I think Hunyadi could annex Silesia to Hungary if he did not gain the Bohemian throne.
 
Last edited:

krieger

Banned
I think if there is a claim for Poland for Silesia, they should reclaim Upper Silesia, basically Opole-Raciborz and Cieszyn since the roots of Vistula are there, parts of those duchies were reclaimed by Poland which are Czestochowa, Auschwitz, Zator and temporarily Opole-Raciborz, since their population remained Ethnic Polish.

Actually, the Habsburgs gave Opole and Cieszyn to Vasas and Saxons IOTL..so a return of Upper Silesia to Poland is not impossible - I think the Habsburgs are okay to return them to Poland AS long as Poland aligns with them.

I think Hunyadi could annex Silesia to Hungary if he did not gain the Bohemian throne.

It's XVth century buddy, no one cared about ethnicity back then. And ethnic Poles were much more widespread in Silesia, but no one cared. How Hunyadi could annex Silesia to Hungary if he didn't control Moravia firstly?
 
It's XVth century buddy, no one cared about ethnicity back then. And ethnic Poles were much more widespread in Silesia, but no one cared. How Hunyadi could annex Silesia to Hungary if he didn't control Moravia firstly?
Yes, he needs to control Moravia as well..
 
Top