WI: Jim Shooter Doesn't Ban LGBT Characters

During his time as Marvel's EIC, Jim Shooter banned depictions of LGBT characters. The story goes that a scene in a Hulk issue where Bruce Banner narrowly avoids getting raped by two gay men drew a lot of protests, so Shooter decided that any depiction of LGBT characters would be too controversial.

But let's say that, for one reason or another, he didn't institute the infamous "no gays" clause. What would have happened? How would things have been different?
 
Perhaps a smoother move forward with diversity in comics.

In the case of North Star he gets to be in the open much earlier. Although, the social commentary derived from his status being actually in the closet at the time was interesting.

As to current day Ice Man, perhaps there would have been no need for the ham fisted way they chose to make his character gay. It would have been unnecessary as there would have been a legacy of characters from decades before who were gay to begin with.
 
Easy to imagine given the trendlines of otl. Comics go SJW/upper middle class early, and thus taint that whole movement with the "nerd" stigma to the point where it never gets traction. You get a "left" backlash post-bush as OTL, but instead of SJW/"woke" politics/meetoo you'd get more of a focus on say gay marriage/marijuana/trans* stuff and HOPEFULLY economics brought up more to where we get something better than OBamacare.

No hollywood adoption of comics into megablockbusters. Why? Well, for part of the period the comics wouldn't fly for adaptations and for the mid-late 2010s, the comics would be dead so no market in the eyes of the money people at the studios. The US comic industry has been dead for at least a decade TTL. Webcomic scene unrecognizable, smaller and divided between a bucnh of obviously animesque stuff that'd fit in OTL's 2000s much more than OTL 2010s.

No modern "geek chic".

* Not nonbinary, just standard MTF/FTM trans.
 
Apparently, Chris Claremont originally intended for Storm to be bisexual and in a relationship with Yukio, but these plans had to be scrapped because of Shooter's veto on LGBT characters. I've also seen a few people say Wolverine was meant to bi, but I haven't found any confirmation for that.
 
You get a "left" backlash post-bush as OTL, but instead of SJW/"woke" politics/meetoo you'd get more of a focus on say gay marriage/marijuana/trans* stuff and HOPEFULLY economics brought up more to where we get something better than OBamacare.
* Not nonbinary, just standard MTF/FTM trans.
What?!
 

MatthewB

Banned
As to current day Ice Man, perhaps there would have been no need for the ham fisted way they chose to make his character gay. It would have been unnecessary as there would have been a legacy of characters from decades before who were gay to begin with.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Iceman.

 
During his time as Marvel's EIC, Jim Shooter banned depictions of LGBT characters. The story goes that a scene in a Hulk issue where Bruce Banner narrowly avoids getting raped by two gay men drew a lot of protests, so Shooter decided that any depiction of LGBT characters would be too controversial.

But let's say that, for one reason or another, he didn't institute the infamous "no gays" clause. What would have happened? How would things have been different?

Maybe if the artist/author had depicted the gay characters as supportive and non-threatening, there would be no need for a ban.

Historically, there has been a long term aversion to depicting adult relationship in certain children's stories. Back in the thirties, one country allowed Mickey Mouse but censored away those with Minnie because "relationships" were not appropriate to show kids of a certain age. Another censored Donald Duck because he did not wear pants.
 
Easy to imagine given the trendlines of otl. Comics go SJW/upper middle class early, and thus taint that whole movement with the "nerd" stigma to the point where it never gets traction.
This betrays a very poor understanding of Marvel's history. If you want to call this "SJW", then Marvel has always been SJW: throughout the 70s and 80s they introduced a number of black superheroes and took a pro-feminist stance. Some examples: Black Panther fought the Klan, Storm lead the X-Men, Captain Marvel was a black woman (Monica Rambeau), even the name Ms. Marvel was a statement ("Ms." being a new feminist coinage). And don't think this wasn't controversial: Stan Lee regularly shot back at readers who criticized Marvel for being too inclusive. Including LGBT characters earlier would not be against Marvel's publishing ethos— I mean, that the EIC had to ban it should already tell you the writers were thinking of it— and it's hard to imagine this suddenly tanking the company when they've navigated and weathered other backlash just fine.

The rest of your post is just word salad and a lot of absurd assumptions, but this part is frankly wrong:

Webcomic scene unrecognizable, smaller and divided between a bucnh of obviously animesque stuff that'd fit in OTL's 2000s much more than OTL 2010s.
Webcomics took, and continue to take, very little from superhero comics. The main influences are newspaper comics and manga, and in recent years indie comics. Superhero comics cratering wouldn't change much here.
 
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If there's no ban, Bruce Banner almost gets raped by two gay men. Is that a better outcome than what happened?
I mean, that comic did happen IOTL, it's not a hypothetical. So without a ban, it means that very ugly, homophobic issue gets counterbalanced by some genuine and well-meaning LGBT representation… which is definitely a better outcome.
 
I mean, that comic did happen IOTL, it's not a hypothetical. So without a ban, it means that very ugly, homophobic issue gets counterbalanced by some genuine and well-meaning LGBT representation… which is definitely a better outcome.

This. And in fact, there are those who might see the positive representation as something of an apology for the infamous "attempted gay rape" scene.
 
During his time as Marvel's EIC, Jim Shooter banned depictions of LGBT characters. The story goes that a scene in a Hulk issue where Bruce Banner narrowly avoids getting raped by two gay men drew a lot of protests, so Shooter decided that any depiction of LGBT characters would be too controversial.

But let's say that, for one reason or another, he didn't institute the infamous "no gays" clause. What would have happened? How would things have been different?
this is what i found on this:
https://hornet.com/stories/time-incredible-hulk-almost-raped-gay-men-ymca
 
Oh, it looks like I forgot to actually address the OP… let me fix that.

Even with Shooter forbidding gay characters, it didn't stop writers like Byrne and Claremont from sneaking it in with plausible deniability; so I think if their hands weren't tied, they would be less vague about it. They might not be explicit about their gay characters— the Comics Code Authority, which still held sway at this point, also forbade non-heterosexual relationships— but they could push the subtext further and write characters as all-but-out (just avoiding certain words). Prime candidates here would be Northstar (whom Byrne said he always intended to be gay), Mystique and Destiny (whom Claremont intended as lovers and Nightcrawler's biological parents), or Kitty Pryde (whom Claremont always writes as bisexual).

But here's an idea: there was a Northstar story in the early 80s where he was dying of a mysterious illness, and legend has it that writer Bill Mantlo intended for it to be AIDS— but Marvel got cold feet and forced a last minute change into something else. Let's say Marvel goes through with the AIDS storyline, but the CCA objects, and Marvel does what they did a decade ago with the "Spidey vs Drugs" story: shrug, remove the CCA logo from that issue and publish it anyway. The issue causes a stir but is overall successful and acclaimed for its depiction of a sensitive real-world concern… and the CCA trying to kibosh it becomes a huge embarrassment for them and hastens their demise.
 
This doesn’t have to be good or nice.

Gay men as antagonists and later poisonous antagonists could well be a mainstay. Lesbian invisibility power of course. Ugliness ensues. The breakthrough being an eventual heroising.
 
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