WI: Jewish Macedonia - An Israel in the Balkans

I am toying with an idea of Jewish migrations from the 1850s in massive numbers from Russia to the Eastern Balkans and Macedonia foremost. Salonika is popular destination as there are many Jews there anyway in this case. The Ottomans still face the same issues as OTL but retain Macedonia who will have a Jewish Majority of 51% by 1900 and still rising (as Christians and Muslims in lesser degree leave the region for various reasons...)...

Is it possible for a Jewish State in Macedonia by 1913 if the Jewish population was at least 60% by 1912-1913? Serbia still gets Sandzak and Kosovo, Bulgaria gets Western Thrace, Greece gets parts of Epirus and some Aegean islands while Albania gets independent and Macedonia is a buffer for all these states?

My reasoning of putting this in this forum is that the PoD needs to be in the 19th century because it is not achievable in a decade. Putting Israel in the Middle East among hostile Arabs seemed unlikely either but hey... it worked...
 
I think we'd need a Russia that dominates the Balkan for this to happen. It could be another piece in a divide and conquer strategy, jews, greeks, albanians and yugoslavs to busy fighting eachother to rebell against russia.
 
I doubt mere ethnic composition would stop Serbia or Greece from annexing Macedonia. These are times every Balkan nation claimed as much land as possible. Idea of Jewish Macedonia needs strong support of (at least) one of European powers to materialise.
 
If the Ottomans settle a large number of Ashkenazim Jews in Macedonia after the area for some reason have been depopulated, I think Germany or Prussia would be the most likely backer of a independent Jewish state in the region. But there’s a major problem with a Jewish state in the region, farmers made up a majority of the population in the region and Jewish farmers was extremely rare. There was to my knowledge a few proto-Kibbutz in Bessarabia, but beside that Jewish population was urban.
 
If Macedonia is 51% Jewish, I imagine it is also 10-20% Muslim. Annexation of the place by surrounding countries would be tricky.

Salonika was nicknamed La Madre de Israel. Perhaps Madria (motherland) would be a good name for this country?


If the Ottomans settle a large number of Ashkenazim Jews in Macedonia after the area for some reason have been depopulated, I think Germany or Prussia would be the most likely backer of a independent Jewish state in the region. But there’s a major problem with a Jewish state in the region, farmers made up a majority of the population in the region and Jewish farmers was extremely rare. There was to my knowledge a few proto-Kibbutz in Bessarabia, but beside that Jewish population was urban.

Salonika was a bit of an outlier from this norm. There were so many Jews that you had Jews of various classes as opposed to the norm in which Jews tended to be a class in and of themselves in many countries.

Per wiki
Salonikan Jews were unique in their participation in all economic niches, not confining their business to a few sectors, as was the case where Jews were a minority. They were active in all levels of society, from porters to merchants. Salonika had a large number of Jewish fishermen, unmatched elsewhere, even in present-day Israel.
 
I think we'd need a Russia that dominates the Balkan for this to happen. It could be another piece in a divide and conquer strategy, jews, greeks, albanians and yugoslavs to busy fighting eachother to rebell against russia.
Russia, especially in that era, would sooner wipe out the Jews than give them a state.
 
Salonika IMO was way too big of a prize to the neighboring countries to give up, especially not to a country all sides can say was “artificial” (even though the city was majority Jewish).

This could even lead to the unholiest of alliances, a Greco-Bulgarian unified effort to conquer the country :p
 
There is another problem-even if large number of Jews settle Macedonia temporarily they'll start leaving soon for economic reasons (unless Ottomans impose some sort of Pale of Setflement there). Macedonia is not rich, they would simply not be able to support their families and unlike in Palestine land in Macedonia is not special for Jews. Also Ashkenazi Jews were highly urbanized society and even those who lived in villages were usually merchants, tailors and so on, rarely farmers.
 
There is another problem-even if large number of Jews settle Macedonia temporarily they'll start leaving soon for economic reasons (unless Ottomans impose some sort of Pale of Setflement there). Macedonia is not rich, they would simply not be able to support their families and unlike in Palestine land in Macedonia is not special for Jews. Also Ashkenazi Jews were highly urbanized society and even those who lived in villages were usually merchants, tailors and so on, rarely farmers.
Unless "Jewish Macedonia" is little more than Thessalonica.
 
If the Ottomans settle a large number of Ashkenazim Jews in Macedonia after the area for some reason have been depopulated,

They actually did. They settled the Jewish refugges from the Spanish Inquisition in Thessaloniki, the Greeks considered expelling them along with the Muslims during their post WW1 population exchanges. Had they that community would most likely still be alive and well in Izmir or Istanbul. As it was they died during the holocaust.
 
I think we'd need a Russia that dominates the Balkan for this to happen. It could be another piece in a divide and conquer strategy, jews, greeks, albanians and yugoslavs to busy fighting eachother to rebell against russia.

Russia would have no interest in this. It would be more interested in strengthening the Orthodox countries. The Ottoman Empire, on the other hand, might have interest in supporting a Jewish country as a puppet state if it thought it was going to loose the area anyway.
 

Dolan

Banned
The first thing I thought about this is "Was Alexander drunk and ordered Jews to swap home with Macedonians?"

In order to have better control over Persia, of course...
 
A little clarification for members:
- Russia is out of options as the region has Eastern Orthodox populace which is Russia's priority if anyway they would support dividing the Ottomans more after 1878. Supporting Jews will alienate the Eastern Orthodox Populace.
- Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia can desire Macedonia but it is not a given they will immediately try to divide it IF it is under Great Power protection, be it the UK or Germany. The region is strategic in the Balkans as it can point on all sides. There is also Austria-Hungary who might use it as a counter pressure on Serbia.
- I set the PoD as early as 1856, after the Crimean War. If enough Russian Jews end up there for various reasons (be it for wanting to go to the Americas but fail, be it a call of the Sephardic Jews, be it a failure to migrate to Palesinte etc etc...). There is roughly 60 years time to help the population growth. It is not in my theoretical situation 60% Jewish and 40% Christian. Even if it is 51% Jewish, there would be 20-25% Muslims which makes the Christians even smaller and more divided among Bulgarians and Greeks. The Muslims will not prefer Christian Rule if Ottoman rule is out of option and the Jewish population needs allies. For the time being, the Muslims look fine. Assuming that 1878 still has the same results, Large number of Muslims from lands lost to Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria in 1878 will also move to Macedonia, helping to balance it out. Not that it helps the cause for a Jewish Macedonia but it helps to ease against Christian rebellions
- Pointing out that rural population is higher... True... If the poor Jews from Russia and let's add Romania as well, move to the lands of the migrating Christians and Muslims, they could grow as well.
 
In about fifty years before 1947, the Jewish population of Palestine increased by about 600 thousands. Considering that Macedonia had about 2.2 million in 1900 and that Macedonia is not the Jewish promised land and thus has not the potential to attract nearly as many Jewish immigrants, it seems extremely unlikely that enough Jews would emigrate to Macedonia to make it majority Jewish in this time frame. Unless there was massive ethnic cleansing of the Christian population, of course, which would make the continued existence of this Jewish Macedonia more than unlikely if (more likely when) a Balkan war broke out.
 
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