WI: Jewish Homeland in South East Asia

Potentially a what if with a rather grotesque or at least crapsacky result. I can only imagine two places where this can be possible :

1) North Kalimantan/Borneo. Either Sarawak or Sabah. It'll be fun if this happens out of a Jewish James Brooke, the coolest way we can get it. If it is indeed a Jewish *Brooke, then he'll going to run into interesting times reconciling native traditional polities with the Jewish settlers. If he doesn't have as much admiration towards the local culture as OTL Brooke, then the only way I can see it happen is through foreign sponsor to deliberately create a Jewish homeland. It will get apartheid-y quite sooner then OTL Israel.

2) Papua. The only way would be through settlement plan not unlike Uganda Plan, only it actually comes through. It won't likely be an enticing idea for the Jews worldwide, unless it's a heavily deliberate project backed by a Freeport like mega company that uses Jewish Homeland building as a vehicle for their money making scheme. Or, this Freeport equivalent company can very well be Jewish, with both profit and ideological motives, and wants to kill two birds with one stone by this. The fate of natives here look grimmer then option #1, likely to make Indonesian treatment IOTL looks pretty compassionate.

I considered some alternatives, like Southern Sumatra(Palembang or Jambi) or Nusa Tenggara, but it seemes neither are good enough locations geopolitically for such state to culminate, and they are also far from as "empty" as both options above. Southern Sumatran Malay states like Palembang or Jambi had a tradition of integrating immigrants like Arabs and Chinese into their society and giving them a role in local politics, which makes Jews a potentially cool addition to the mix but not quite what this thread is about. Minahasa in Northern Sulawesi can't seem to be replaced or overlayed by Jewish settlers. But IOTL they converted to christianity and adopted Dutch culture so imagining they do that with Judaism is certainly tempting. It still will need a foreign patron and again, not quite what this thread is about.

I don't see neither #1 or 2 will have a particularly friendly relations with surrounding countries. #1, if headed by a Brooke like personality, will have a chance to look half good at least. Something a kind to how Sarawak and Sabah are today under Malaysia, only with Jews rather then peninsular Muslims and Indonesian immigrants. I wonder how their religious policy towards the native will be. Both Islam and christianity can serve as potential channel for subversive expressions against the state. Will they tend to discourage the spread of those religions ? Will they actually try converting the Dayaks to Judaism ? I find the later quite unlikely. As for Papuan scenario, I simply can imagine nothing good. They can't quite swarm the place like Indonesian transimgrants(which don't really outnumber the natives all that much), but the racial policies will be very draconian, likely more so then South Africa. And that this state will likely revolve around mineral exploitation of the land really doesn't help.


Thoughts ?
 
As far as I can tell, the best Jewish homeland in South East Asia must be Singapore. Jews love Chinese (foods) afterall.

I foresaw this kind of reply ;) Singapore idea does have an amount of validity, too. But it's just too obvious. Lack novelty and exoticism that a Jewish Sarawak can offer. Besides, any european power that comes to control Singapore will prefer to draft Chinese instead...

Wait, a Brooke option for Singapore is kinda fun, too !
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Well, if it is before 1900, wouldn't

Well, if it is before 1900, wouldn't a protectorate/dependency/colony of some sort in Australia under British or Dutch or French (depending on the POD) make more sense?

The indigenous peoples of Australia would seem much more vulnerable than those of what became Indonesia over the past several centuries, and the potential for great power rivalry over an entire continent would seem likely to offer more than a few windows for one side or the other to be looking for allies, in terms of settlers, finances, etc.

Best,
 
3) Singapore.

I have a hard time seeing this route coming about through European direct colonialism. Brooke option it is. The difference is that it will be quite easier to fill the country with Jews, but there's much less land to do so. I imagine it will be a mini maritime empire, ruling over the surrounding islands, perhaps up to Natunas. This Jewish Singapore will have many many reasons to be contrarian, and its position will be a great stress maker to regional politics. Indonesia will likely have to be balkanized to enable it thriving.
 
Well, if it is before 1900, wouldn't a protectorate/dependency/colony of some sort in Australia under British or Dutch or French (depending on the POD) make more sense?

The indigenous peoples of Australia would seem much more vulnerable than those of what became Indonesia over the past several centuries, and the potential for great power rivalry over an entire continent would seem likely to offer more than a few windows for one side or the other to be looking for allies, in terms of settlers, finances, etc.

Best,

Exactly why I specify it to be South East Asia, instead of Oceania. Australia is way too easy.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Okay, didn't know how you were defining it;

Exactly why I specify it to be South East Asia, instead of Oceania. Australia is way too easy.

Aceh, maybe? Christianized Indonesians (and the Eurasian "Indo" population generally) seem like they'd a little easier to make this idea work than Muslim Indonesians, I'd think.

Allong the same lines, the Anglo-Burmese and Eurasian populations in Ceylon/Sri Lanka suggest another possibility, although maybe you see those both as "South Asia."

The other obvious location are the Philippines; given the Spanish connection, not easy, but certainly various "hidden" populations in Spain and the Spanish colonies suggest a path...

Best,
 
pretty ASB. Before WW2 got migration of eastern European Jews to USA (and also Canada, Australia, random other spots) because of religious toleration (comparatively) and economic opportunity. IN SE Asia don't have economic opportunity to support large numbers of immigrants (no factories, businesses etc no economic niches for them). If you wait until Herzl writes "Die Judenstaat" why look to a part of the world with zero Jewish connections as opposed to Palestine/Israel.
 
Aceh, maybe? Christianized Indonesians (and the Eurasian "Indo" population generally) seem like they'd a little easier to make this idea work than Muslim Indonesians, I'd think.

Allong the same lines, the Anglo-Burmese and Eurasian populations in Ceylon/Sri Lanka suggest another possibility, although maybe you see those both as "South Asia."

The other obvious location are the Philippines; given the Spanish connection, not easy, but certainly various "hidden" populations in Spain and the Spanish colonies suggest a path...

Best,

The Philippines did host a good chunk of European Jewish populations before the war, and after that they migrated to the USA.

If we're aiming for a Jewish entity in SE Asia, TFSmith is right that the Philippines would be a good place to allocate lands for a Jewish homeland. However, it will be dominated by Sephardic, rather than Ashkenazi, Jews.
 
Interesting premise, but since I only know much stuff about no 1 I'll answer that instead.

Potentially a what if with a rather grotesque or at least crapsacky result. I can only imagine two places where this can be possible :

1) North Kalimantan/Borneo. Either Sarawak or Sabah. It'll be fun if this happens out of a Jewish James Brooke, the coolest way we can get it. If it is indeed a Jewish *Brooke, then he'll going to run into interesting times reconciling native traditional polities with the Jewish settlers. If he doesn't have as much admiration towards the local culture as OTL Brooke, then the only way I can see it happen is through foreign sponsor to deliberately create a Jewish homeland. It will get apartheid-y quite sooner then OTL Israel

Okay, is James Jewish by birth or by marriage? If it's the former, he'll be more of a hardliner. If he's the latter, there could be some flexibility in his views about the Borean Dayaks. Secondly, did he spend his childhood in India? This was one of the factors why he had different views on the natives than his contemporaries.

Thirdly, and most important, James acquired Sarawak because the local lord there wanted his help in an uprising and was willing to give James his position as governor of Kuching. It also helped that James was inspired by Francis Light and Stamford Raffles in their acquiring of Malay territory for the British Empire. Butterfly these factors, and Sarawak would be much more harder to acquire.

Now, for the sake of magical realism I'm going to say that James was Jewish by birth as intercultural Jewish marriages were frowned on at the time. He was raised in Britiain but then moved to Raffles' Singapore or Light's Penang at an early age (there's still a Jewish cemetery there). He gets influenced by the local culture and wants to emulate the two explorers, so he grows up, enlists in the East India Company for some adventure, and used all the money he gained on a boat to Sarawak and history repeats itself.

I can see James siding with the natives on this one, but the rest of his family might think differently. Maybe his brothers or cousins would think that Sarawak would make a safe haven for all the Jews and so waited for the man to die before taking over. (it was his nephew that succeeded him OTL) Once that happens, things will go down fast. Expect immigration to be a trickle until the late 18th century rears it's head on Europe. After that, it's either siding with the natives or with the new citizenry.

However, given that James would have implemented laws that tried to prevent such a thing, I expect the Brooke family to place a fine line between placating the natives and encouraging new immigrants, at least in the early years. Once the population shifts to a Jewish majority though, I expect things to go downhill fast.

Anyway, why does it have to be the Brooke family? How about Alexander Hare and his Bornean state of Maluka? That would be an interesting POD.
 
By Jewish Brooke, I of course mean someone as adventurous and Jewish, not actually turn the Brooke we know into a Jew. But I do imagine that he'll need to be as sincerely appreciative towards the native Malays and Dayaks since that'd be the only way he can start anything. Jews will first come as recruits from his associates and relatives to his administration, as residents, ministers, etc, which will then bring in their own associates, and their theirs, and so on until it draws attention from European Jewry as whole. I agree that it will have to wait until his more primordial successor comes about to make a shift towards Jewish settler state, likely with inviting Jewish magnate to participate in the whole scheme.

Or, perhaps there will be a split among the Jewish elite, between those who want to protect the natives and those who wants to flood the place with Jews. Perhaps the latter can move to Sabah, which was sparsely enough populated to make things easier for them. So we have two Jewish states with different ideologies, sitting in the same island next to and at odds with each other. Let's put a nervous Brunei in the middle for good measure.
 
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pretty ASB. Before WW2 got migration of eastern European Jews to USA (and also Canada, Australia, random other spots) because of religious toleration (comparatively) and economic opportunity. IN SE Asia don't have economic opportunity to support large numbers of immigrants (no factories, businesses etc no economic niches for them). If you wait until Herzl writes "Die Judenstaat" why look to a part of the world with zero Jewish connections as opposed to Palestine/Israel.

ASB is Napoleon conquering the planet, the Jewish "Homeland" in SE Asia is implausible. The lack of apparent opprortunities is as you said a road block. The suggested PODs are in the 1800s, wouldn't one a century prior make things easier?
 
Let's put a nervous Brunei in the middle for good measure.

And as soon as Soekarno or the ATL Nationalistic Leader equivalent come into power in Independent Indonesia, why did I imagine a much more brutal, possibly Islamic charged (instead of the communist backed OTL) Konfrontasi? With the stated reason to "help" Brunei from the invading Jews?

Seriously, too big jewish state in Kalimantan will make Indonesian muslim Nationalists try to "liberate" it. Heck, before post 55s working with communists, Soekarno actually kept a blind eyes over Islamic sacking of Indo-Dutch people and forced seizements of their properties, despite they are mostly supportive of Indonesian independence. Add Jews in the equations and suddenly you will found Indonesian troubles in 50-53 is a walk in a park
 
Butterflies butterflies ! But even if Indonesia will still come about as we know it, it's still no guarantee. Indonesia didn't have much concern over North Kalimantan until the idea of annexing it to Peninsular Malaya came up. And at first Indonesia kind of warmed to the idea until a Bruneian veteran of Indonesian Revolution objected to it, and the British attitude that didn't show any sign of willingness to consider us matter, fueling suspicions that Malaysia was being formed to contain us. And it wasn't wrong.

I don't think Malayans would like a country filled with Jews. However, their treatment of the natives can indeed become a potential source of trouble between the Jewish Sarawak and Indonesia, but it depends on a lot of things. Facing a socialist inspired native uprising next to a left-leaning Indonesia does mean trouble.
 
A silly quickmap because I'm bored enough atm :

Jewish_Borneo_Resized.png
 
Oooh. With Brunei getting sandwiched by that, I wouldn't be surprised that it will join Malaya or Indonesia just for protection. :eek:
 
Is there any particular reason Malys and Indonesians will view Jewish immigrants any worse, or better, than CHinese immigrants? If chinese could become 40% of Malaysia's population with little organized backlash until the 1950s why should Jews not be able to do the same?

Regarding Papua- The interaction between hypothetical Jews and Papuans would be quite different than that which exists between Indonesians and Papuans because the Jews will be seeking to fill different ecomonic niches than the subsistince farmers Indonesia exports to the outer islands.

For a good POD let's assume that the chartered company which acquired Papua goes bankrupt and is purchased by Jewish capitalists instead of the state (as occured to all German chartered companies). as this occurs in 1884, exactly when the Russian Pogroms and the Great immigration of Russian Jews across the atlantic takes place, Some of the company mangers get the bright Idea of recruiting RUssian Jews to manage the new plantations, and fill niches as clerks, traders, etc.

(the same "Jewish chartered company" Shtick can be equally applied to East Africa, SOuth West Africa, etc).

The backlash to more intensive and direct development of the colony will likely lead to more resistance to colonial rule than OTL, but frankly the Papuan tribes were simply too small and disorganized to do much before the mid twentieth century. They also lack the religous identity and theology to place the Jews into an ideological framework which sanctifies uncompromising resistance.

But regardless, the British capture the colony with little resistance in 1914 as OTL. As in Namibia, they support the existing power structure- and issue a proclamation designating Eastern Papua as "the Jewish homeland". Southern SYria comes partly under direct British rule with Jewish immigration strictly limited and is partly handed oiver to King Abduallah

WHat happens next depends on how many Jews actually immigrate there. In other words, are Polish, Romanian and Hungarian Jews prepared to make the journey to a "non Israel" where the climate is horrible, the historical connection null given prevailing conditions between the wars? My guess is that a minority of several hundred thousands are but that most are not. For those German Jews who are rejected by the West options are rather more limited. So let's assume 300,000 or so make it to Papua.

What happens next depends on whether Hitler is dead set on exterminating the Jews when he conqueres Europe or whther, as some claim, the holocaust was an outcome of war shortages and Nazi bueacracy blundering towards genocide since there was no place willing to accept the Jews.

If the previous is true then a Jewish homeland enables "only" 1.5 million Jews in the Balkan states and France to escape during the war, probhably through Turkey. If the latter, then 6-8 million are expelled, of whom many die of starvation and disease once they reach Papua. Help of the united Jewish appeal and U.S and AUstralin grain ship,ments alleviate the situation somewhat... until the Japanese attack.

The question then arises whether:
a. The Japanese manage to capture Northern Papua during WWII as they did OTL.
b. Whether they treat the Jews the same way as they did the DUtch and British civilians in Indonesia and Malysia.

The answer to both questions is probably much worse in the case of a Jewish Sarawak.

In any event, If sufficient numbers of Jews reach Papua to be a solid majority by the time WWII ends Then Papuans are probably treated much as Maori are. Colorful additions to the landscape who have legal and social equality. Some probably do convert to (conservative or reform) Judaism to integrate better.

Coincidentially or otherwise it looks like the Papuan population in 1948 is more or less the same as the Palestinian one http://www.populstat.info/Oceania/papuangc.htm. Assuming greater WWII hardship it will probably be somewhat lower.

There will also probably greater numbers of both Papuan and Jewish refugees in NZ and AUstralia. They may or may not stay and recieve citizenship after WWII.

If insufficient numbers of Jews reach Papua to make a Jewish majority... well, things turn ugly. When decolonization hits, Many Jews, who are the economic and political elite, are going to resist "one man, one vote", especially when they have a chance to observe what that means for chinese in Malysia and Indonesia and Indians in the Pacific islands.

Unlike the Middle East or Africa however, the "liberation struggle", such as it is, is unlikely to be supported by hostile neighbors. Indonesia won't be a neighbor until 1962, lacks cultural or religous ties to the Papuans and is busy opressing it's own Papuans and timoress. Australia will likely back "Japua" as a buffer agianst Indonesia. WHen the cold war ends the West may come to pressure Japua to change course and an East Timor like conciliation may occur. Or not.

Middle Eastern Jews, in any event, will likely not reach Papua. Instead, they will slowly leave the Middle East for the West, much like Middle Eastern christians. North African Jews, whose statues was more dependent on EUropean control will flee to Western Europe in much greater numbers, possibly sparking greater post war antisemitism in France.
 
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