WI:Jewish Brittian?

As it is the final night of hankuah tonight the question I ask to you today is about how a Jewish Brittian may look like if it were to convert during sometime in its history
 
Important question is when and how. And you mean whole population of British Isles? It seems pretty difficult when it was most of its history divided to multiple kingdoms. Probably best way would be that convertion happen on end of Roman reign.
 
Roman times would be good. Maybe some pre AD Roman Empire gets tired of the constant revolts by the Jewish population and exiles them. The largest groups end up in Britain and overtime the majority of Jews migrate there. It would have to more than just exile, you'd need the active threat of ethnic cleansing. Burns a few cities and towns to the ground.
 
This would affect Ireland's development. Would it even become Christian without Catholic England?

In a scenario like this, it depends on so many factors. What we'd need is an early adoption by the British post Jewish displacement. If the Jews did well in theory Ireland could follow. Step one be far from Rome and stop stirring the pot up and the Jews might do well enough to spread.
 
Historically, Jewish people did not evangelize that much, so I imagine this would more likely to happen through migration from continental Europe to Britain?
 
Historically, Jewish people did not evangelize that much, so I imagine this would more likely to happen through migration from continental Europe to Britain?

I think so too. I could see the Britons adopting the Jewish religion, but it would probably have to change along the way. An ethnic cleansing by the Roman Emperor could give the Jewish settlers an incentive to adapt the faith to make it more appealing to the masses.
 
In a scenario like this, it depends on so many factors. What we'd need is an early adoption by the British post Jewish displacement. If the Jews did well in theory Ireland could follow. Step one be far from Rome and stop stirring the pot up and the Jews might do well enough to spread.

This reminds me of a Vinland TL I read were Jews and Norse Pagans were living in separate communities but offering mutual support. I'd love to see a Druid-Jewish alliance/Cross pollination.
 
The best way for this to happen, and I find it probably ASB, would be for the Jews to be displaced in large numbers beginning shortly after the birth of Christ, and for this to continue for a century or two. After that, assuming that Judaism becomes majority or close to it in Britain, you may see voluntary movement. Hadrian's Wall began about 120 AD, and between then and the early 5th century Roman influence in Britain waned and then the last legions left. Constantine accepted Christianity in the early 4th century. Judaism has to become established as the first among many trending to significant majority before Pope Gregory sends out the missionaries who Christianized Britain in the 7th century. A Jewish Britain, even with some pagan elements, can basically turn away the missionaries, and absent a Christian Britain Ireland is more likely to become Jewish as well through diffusion. While Pope Gregory may want to try and forcefully have Christianity in Britain with military escorting missionaries, in the 7th century Europe is too fractured to mount the sort of expedition that could make this happen.

By the 7th century you have a Jewish Britain that has been on its own for at least 200 years, with Judaism being deeply rooted there for 500+ years. Viking raids don't start OTL until 793, and ended in 1066. Depending on how fractured Britain is politically, these raids may be less or more successful than OTL and it is possible to see more Viking settlement - which may or may not Judaize. The key time is 1066 - naturally by then the butterflies have made huge changes, but accept for a moment that is when the Norman invasion would happen (more or less). If the Normans are successful, you will see aggressive Christianizing (think Inquisition level) in Britain and subsequently Ireland. If the invasion fails, there are two options. First is that you won't see a successful "Christian" invasion from the continent, and some sort of accommodation between Christians on the Continent and Jews in Britain/Ireland. The other possibility is that instead of crusades to redeem Jerusalem, you see crusades against the Jews in Britain. If Christian Europe puts that sort of effort in to taking over Britain, it could succeed but not guaranteed. IMHO I see the Pope going for Jerusalem before Britain.
 
The best way for this to happen, and I find it probably ASB, would be for the Jews to be displaced in large numbers beginning shortly after the birth of Christ, and for this to continue for a century or two. After that, assuming that Judaism becomes majority or close to it in Britain, you may see voluntary movement. Hadrian's Wall began about 120 AD, and between then and the early 5th century Roman influence in Britain waned and then the last legions left. Constantine accepted Christianity in the early 4th century. Judaism has to become established as the first among many trending to significant majority before Pope Gregory sends out the missionaries who Christianized Britain in the 7th century. A Jewish Britain, even with some pagan elements, can basically turn away the missionaries, and absent a Christian Britain Ireland is more likely to become Jewish as well through diffusion. While Pope Gregory may want to try and forcefully have Christianity in Britain with military escorting missionaries, in the 7th century Europe is too fractured to mount the sort of expedition that could make this happen.

By the 7th century you have a Jewish Britain that has been on its own for at least 200 years, with Judaism being deeply rooted there for 500+ years. Viking raids don't start OTL until 793, and ended in 1066. Depending on how fractured Britain is politically, these raids may be less or more successful than OTL and it is possible to see more Viking settlement - which may or may not Judaize. The key time is 1066 - naturally by then the butterflies have made huge changes, but accept for a moment that is when the Norman invasion would happen (more or less). If the Normans are successful, you will see aggressive Christianizing (think Inquisition level) in Britain and subsequently Ireland. If the invasion fails, there are two options. First is that you won't see a successful "Christian" invasion from the continent, and some sort of accommodation between Christians on the Continent and Jews in Britain/Ireland. The other possibility is that instead of crusades to redeem Jerusalem, you see crusades against the Jews in Britain. If Christian Europe puts that sort of effort in to taking over Britain, it could succeed but not guaranteed. IMHO I see the Pope going for Jerusalem before Britain.


Yes. Britain doesn't bring much to the Roman Empire and post it's collapse it brought even less. If does go Jewish I don't see mainland Christendom being all that upset about it. It will probably be ignored until the vikings. The only time I see a crusade in this scenario being aligned at Britain would be if some political figure has the papacy in its pocket and seeks territory closer to home. It also depends on how successful it becomes. There is a reasonable chance that the population will be fairly high if it's known you can be openly Jewish there. A larger population will probably mean a better economy.
 
In a scenario like this, it depends on so many factors. What we'd need is an early adoption by the British post Jewish displacement. If the Jews did well in theory Ireland could follow. Step one be far from Rome and stop stirring the pot up and the Jews might do well enough to spread.

Judaism historically hasn't been much of a proselytising religion, so unless this changes TTL I'd still expect Ireland to end up Catholic, although probably a century or two after it did IOTL.
 
Judaism have often been proselytizing, they only stopped because it lowered their survival chance in the Christian and Muslim which grew to dominance. The primarily reason I think Judaism will have little chance in Britain are the fact their dietary rules works very much again them in a waste-not societies north of the Alps, yes they can thrive as a urban or semi-urban minority, but as a majority population they will be outcompeted by the people who can eat blood pudding and use pig fat as a replacement for butter.
 
This would affect Ireland's development. Would it even become Christian without Catholic England?
wasn't Ireland and Scotland Christian before England? Furthermore, wasn't early Celtic Christianity closer to Coptic Christianity than Roman?
 
wasn't Ireland and Scotland Christian before England? Furthermore, wasn't early Celtic Christianity closer to Coptic Christianity than Roman?

I think English was Christianised first (as part of the Roman Empire) but then became pagan again with the Anglo-Saxons, while Ireland and Scotland then became Christian.
 
wasn't Ireland and Scotland Christian before England?

The region currently known as England was Christianised first. Ireland was Christianised from there, and Scotland (IIRC) from Ireland. When the Anglo-Saxons came across they were still pagan, so the area was temporarily lost to Christendom until being (re-)Christianised, mostly from the Continent, although there was some Irish missionary activity in Northumbria.

Furthermore, wasn't early Celtic Christianity closer to Coptic Christianity than Roman?

Celtic areas were as Catholic as any other part of western European Christendom during this time, and the differences they had with Rome were mostly over comparatively minor things. (The only issue I can think of that actually caused any serious disagreement was the dating of Easter.) The notion of a separate "Celtic Christianity" distinct from the Roman Church owes its existence to Protestant polemicists, who wanted to prove that Papism was a recent imposition on Britain and accordingly played up the differences between the British and Roman Churches, and to later romantic nationalists who wanted to prove that their own country was special and unique, and hence played up the supposedly special and unique nature of native Celtic spirituality.
 
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