WI Jesus lead an actual revolt against Rome?

[Malone]

Jesus was unique in that he was one of the few (only?) Jewish messianic figure of that era to not advocate or attempt an actual real world revolt against Rome. However regardless in the end he was executed by Rome. What if Jesus of Nazareth had actually lead a revolt and that in turn is what lead to him being executed?

Assuming the same spiritual/metaphysical elements still remain in the holy books, how does this impact the growth of Christianity?

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

This would get Rome to persecute Christians even more than OTL.

 

[Purrangzeb]

Depends. Does he succeed?
Say his revolt is wiped out very quickly, by a local garrison.
Christianity would either be ignored by the Roman government or they could crack down on it, but the former is more likely than the latter considering how much it would cost to put down some expensive revolt. Christianity could very well spread like IRL, but with a stronger militaristic backdrop and a possible justification for later Christian revolts across the Empire and well into the middle ages by the Papacy and Christian kingdoms.
If his revolt is moderately successful, perhaps conquering the entire Decapolis and Levant, the Romans would be pressed to strike him down, and begin crackdown on Christianity at large. They can't risk a huge, separatist, hostile religion right next to the bread-basket of the empire (Egypt).
If he's wildly successful, perhaps conquering lower Egypt and the entire Levant+Southern Anatolia, then it would deliver a huge blow the Roman Empire. Chances are that it would collapse after 50-odd years, but the creation of a 'Christian Empire' would lead to later Church Leaders promoting more violent doctrine and conquest against Pagan empires, citing the conquests of the Christ in their justifications.
Or, the Romans could aggressively & violently retake the Levant, massacring Christians & Jews and expelling them even earlier than otl, possibly weakening the Jewish identity as a domino effect. Rome's pagan religious institutions grow more jingoistic,.

 

[Malone]

Depends. Does he succeed?

If he did he'd be the messiah of modern day Jews as well. One of the reasons for not being accepted as Messiah I believe, is that one of the precepts of the Jewish messiah would be that they liberated the real world Judea and not just the spiritual one.

In this scenario he's not successful and a Rome that controls Judea continues.

 

[Silver01]

he gets ignored as many as the other messianic claimants of the time the reason why Jesus has become the most followed man/ deity of the last 1500 years is because he didn't rebel which sure caused a lot of jews to say he was not the messiah but caused a number of jews to believe he did something far greater he liberated us from sin not only jews but Christianity asserts that he did this for everyone thus the message was for all , even with that Christianity was likely to fail in a roman word since that the all powerful god will allow himself to be killed was alien to them.

still with jesus leading an armed rebellion would mean he would be just a failure , the idea that he died on the cross to liberate us spiritually and then would come back to establish his kingdom would never develop as that was a unique explanation due to the crucifixion

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Define "actual revolt"

 

[Ivan Lupo]

Depends on how big the revolt is, what sort of damage it's able to inflict on the empire, and who is involved. With the right set of circumstances, perhaps Jesus somehow gets the Sanhedrin behind him, starts a massive revolt in Jerusalem, and starts by defeating the Roman garrison there. More than likely Pontius Pilate is killed. He is acclaimed King of Judaea, and within months, an imperial army comes down from Syria, Jesus is captured and taken to Rome to marched in a triumph and whichever Roman general that crushes the revolt receives the agnomen Judaicus. And then said general is promptly assassinated or executed by Tiberias Caesar for fear of his growing popularity.

 

[Lalli]

Probably depends about details but Christianity hardly is going to rise. Romans would ensure even harder to put CHristianity down if it ever emerge. And the religion probably not become very markable. I can't see even any Roman emperor converting to Christianity since how it reveolted against Roman Empire and how small would be.

If Jesus' memory is not totally wiped and there is at least some level of Christianity, it is probably even more pro-violence. And during persecutions of Christians, people probably are going to use violence instead just accepting to be eaten by lions.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

Knowing that Jesus is the son of God, the Roman Empire will be annihilated and the Kingdom of Heaven will appear before the eyes of mankind with the end of Time and the Last Judgment.

Assuming the same spiritual/metaphysical elements still remain in the holy books, how does this impact the growth of Christianity?

You cannot have the same Christian theology with such a major change. The lack of open rebellion against Rome and the life of the evangelists after the cruxifiction were fundamental. A revolt led by Jesus sweeps all that away.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

It end quicker than the Bar whatever revolt.

There's a reason why he went the passive resistance route, if not anything he did would have ended so quickly that it wouldn't even be recorded.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Probably depends about details but Christianity hardly is going to rise. Romans would ensure even harder to put CHristianity down if it ever emerge. And the religion probably not become very markable. I can't see even any Roman emperor converting to Christianity since how it reveolted against Roman Empire and how small would be.

If Jesus' memory is not totally wiped and there is at least some level of Christianity, it is probably even more pro-violence. And during persecutions of Christians, people probably are going to use violence instead just accepting to be eaten by lions.

I so wonder. If Christianity still manages to base in the Levant and Syria, what about the conversions of states in the Caucasus, Near East and Aksum before Rome. How would Persia then treat Christians and would the Levant be open to Persian conquest if these more revolutionary Christians turn to the Persian side (cuz them seceding by themselves would probably just end like Palmyra, unless of course maybe if the far Eastern Army converts as well)

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Jesus is captured and taken to Rome to marched in a triumph

More LIkely that he dies or suicides in the war or on route

he gets ignored as many as the other messianic claimants of the time the reason why Jesus has become the most followed man/ deity of the last 1500 years is because he didn't rebel which sure caused a lot of jews to say he was not the messiah but caused a number of jews to believe he did something far greater he liberated us from sin not only jews but Christianity asserts that he did this for everyone thus the message was for all , even with that Christianity was likely to fail in a roman word since that the all powerful god will allow himself to be killed was alien to them.

still with jesus leading an armed rebellion would mean he would be just a failure , the idea that he died on the cross to liberate us spiritually and then would come back to establish his kingdom would never develop as that was a unique explanation due to the crucifixion

He might stand a better chance if he keeps the whole "my message is for everyone" part of the Christianity as it would help him recruit from non-Jews as well, maybe he would be able to get a good sized rebellion all over (given how far the Jew only revolts went) before he's crushed. Like the only time he could do some sort of Islam like success is crisis of the 3rd century or soon after.

Chances are that it would collapse after 50-odd years

Or, the Romans could aggressively & violently retake the Levant, massacring Christians & Jews and expelling them even earlier than otl, possibly weakening the Jewish identity as a domino effect. Rome's pagan religious institutions grow more jingoistic,.

This your response is the most likely outcome. This was rome near its height afterall.

but the creation of a 'Christian Empire' would lead to later Church Leaders promoting more violent doctrine and conquest against Pagan empires, citing the conquests of the Christ in their justifications

So basically Christianity with Islamic expansion theology. Would be based.

 

[SunKing105]

Then he gets crushed, like what happened in the First Roman-Jewish War, the Kitos War, or Bar Khokba's revolt. Assuming that a low-class carpenter would even be a viable candidate.

This would get Rome to persecute Christians even more than OTL.

More likely Christianity itself doesn't exist, Yeshua is just another false messiah claimant, like Bar Khokba.

 

[El_Fodedor]

The Hebrews didn't have an army to face off the Romans. If Jesus revolted, he would be crushed and Palestine would suffer genocide and slavery a couple generations earlier.

He would be some kind of failed Muhammad, and his legacy wouldn't last until today.

 

[Kerney]

Assuming the same spiritual/metaphysical elements still remain in the holy books, how does this impact the growth of Christianity?

DWBI answer from most people: Jesus Christ? Thor knows I never heard of him. Wait he was a Jeopardy question nobody got last week. (I do think Christianity butterflied a lot of Germanization, hence Thor. Jeopardy will not be butterflied though).

DWBI answer from atl history buff: Yeah, one of those minor rebels in the first century of the Roman Prinicipate. Yeah, sure him or Boudicca could have won rather than Arimus, but overall a very minor figure.

 

[Sarufiyyun]

Jesus is killed in battle, kills himself or if captured, sent to Rome where he is paraded around before he's eventually executed along with the rebels he led to their doom. He at most becomes a minor figure mentioned by Josephus and one other historian. Christianity never comes to past. Jerusalem, if captured and made Jesus' capital, would be burnt to the ground and re-founded as a Roman colony as Hadrian did IOTL.

 

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

On the other hand, a militant violent martial Christianity would be more similar to how the Christian European societies developed in mediaeval and early modern times, so the religion would be less contradictory.

 

[Malone]

On the other hand, a militant violent martial Christianity would be more similar to how the Christian European societies developed in mediaeval and early modern times, so the religion would be less contradictory.

A call for a crusade is just another word for a call for Jihad, so that is correct. Christianity despite its founder has been far from a pacifistic religion.

 

[LampLighters]

A call for a crusade is just another word for a call for Jihad, so that is correct. Christianity despite its founder has been far from a pacifistic religion.

Crusades and Jihads are not very similar. They are very different concepts that evolved under different circumstances.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

A call for a crusade is just another word for a call for Jihad, so that is correct

I get the superficial similarity of both, both being holy war ideologies but these are still very different ideas.