WI: Japan militarily intervenes in Hawaii in 1893?

...Although, a question to anyone who does know. Are the Matsuhima-class ship's main guns worth anything in naval combat? Their size on such a small ship, and their rate of fire, implies that they are more of a bombardment weapon. That, combined with their bad engines and relatively slow speed (for the Japanese navy), might make them a little less effective than otherwise intended. They seem to be their mainline ships of the war.
The 320mm Canet guns on Matsushima-class cruisers were notoriously troublesome - slow reload, mounts too light to withstand recoil well and guns often suffered failures. The ships were just too small for such a gun (65t; IIRC the 305mm guns used on IJN battleships during the war with Russia weighted ~45t a piece...); they'd be better with all-120mm battery. Although their speed (16,5 kn max) was fine for their times - they weren't slow (for the ships of the main line).
 
The 320mm Canet guns on Matsushima-class cruisers were notoriously troublesome - slow reload, mounts too light to withstand recoil well and guns often suffered failures. The ships were just too small for such a gun (65t; IIRC the 305mm guns used on IJN battleships during the war with Russia weighted ~45t a piece...); they'd be better with all-120mm battery. Although their speed (16,5 kn max) was fine for their times - they weren't slow (for the ships of the main line).

It wasn't that they were slow on paper, it was that they had trouble maintaining their advertised speed (moreso than other ships). They might only get that in short bursts.

But, frankly, the Japanese should be thankful that the Beiyang fleet was so inexperienced that they lined up incorrectly against the Japanese at Yalu River. If any butterflies reduce the number of available Japanese ships, along with, perhaps, letting the Chinese to assume the proper battle formation, then the battle could have been a lot closer.
 
Japan also did not know that the Chinese would decide to stand on the strategic defensive. China didn't try to attack Japan or even raid her coastline/ports/shipping. By surrendering the initiative the Chinese allowed the Japanese to dictate the flow of the war. The Chinese had 2 battleships which the Japanese were unable to appreciably harm during the Battle of the Yalu. The Japanese couldn't know for sure what the Chinese would do, or how ships on both sides would perform vs. each other.

...Although, a question to anyone who does know. Are the Matsuhima-class ship's main guns worth anything in naval combat? Their size on such a small ship, and their rate of fire, implies that they are more of a bombardment weapon. That, combined with their bad engines and relatively slow speed (for the Japanese navy), might make them a little less effective than otherwise intended. They seem to be their mainline ships of the war.

According to my copy of 'Kaigun: Japanese Navy 1887-1941', the Canet gun mounted on each Matsuhima-class ship proved impractical. They were intended to fulfill the role of a battleship's heavy firepower with a much lower budget.
 
Japan also did not know that the Chinese would decide to stand on the strategic defensive. China didn't try to attack Japan or even raid her coastline/ports/shipping. By surrendering the initiative the Chinese allowed the Japanese to dictate the flow of the war. The Chinese had 2 battleships which the Japanese were unable to appreciably harm during the Battle of the Yalu. The Japanese couldn't know for sure what the Chinese would do, or how ships on both sides would perform vs. each other.

Part of that, I presume, was intentional; Japanese ships were much faster and more agile; they could outflank the Chinese in open waters, and the Chinese couldn't afford to lose any ships either. Their best approach was to bait the Japanese into a battle in restricted waters where their maneuverability isn't as game breaking and let their ships battle out on more even ground.

Those two pre-dreadnoughts couldn't be harmed, but the rest of the fleet, from what i could tell, was doomed due to incorrect formations that were made before the battle. Those exposed many of the more vulnerable, smaller ships.
 
Would it be possible to have the Japanese form ties with the Hawaiian monarchy before the coup and then have the IJN intervene to restore the monarchy after an alt-coup?

I do question whether, if Japan intervened to support the monarchy, the US would intervene. Not only is it difficult for the US to do, but the US also has a strong consensus against annexing Hawaii. The real problem with making this happen is, as I see it, finding a reason that would compel the Japanese to intervene. As others have pointed out, the IJN has much more vital jobs closer to home.

I agree with what others have said that Japan annexing Hawaii is, in 1893, really, really unlikely. Not only would it cause more opposition and be more expensive, but it would mean that Japan would need to base a naval squadron in Hawaii. In contrast, an independent Hawaiian monarchy could have its own squadron of coastal patrol ships and alliances with Britain and Japan to secure it.

I have to say, I find the idea of an Anglo-Japanese aligned Hawaiian monarchy continuing on into the 20th century a fascinating one.

fasquardon
You'd need a POD significantly before 1893 regardless.
 
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