WI: Japan had not closed itself off during the Tokugawa Era

I guess my question is would Japan be in a strong position later on if it had not ceased trade with other countries and what might have changed? Would their industrial complex later be more refined and capable. Would their be a stronger innovative streak later on after the era of the Samuri?
 
I think there would be increased trade across Southeastern Asia and possibly elsewhere. They were starting to build ships based on Spanish designs for long-range travel, so the chance for further expansion and trade is certainly there. There will probably be more diffusion of Catholicism into the country and I could see Japanese colonies developing throughout the region. I'm not sure how they do in terms of innovation, but the overall level of tech and trade will be greater.
 
I dont know how you can prevent a Japanese Close off unless you either keep them divided or the Spanish get a firm foot hold on one of the islands
 
Did Oda or Toyotomi favor the isolation that Tokugawa did? If they didn't, then perhaps having either survive to establish their own Shogunate would suffice.
 
Did Oda or Toyotomi favor the isolation that Tokugawa did? If they didn't, then perhaps having either survive to establish their own Shogunate would suffice.
Oda and Toyotomi did not in fact. Didn't one of them (or both) try to invade Korea?
 
Toyotomi tried to invade Korea and had a shot for taking the entire country until the Ming joined in. Oda died before unifying the country and I'm not sure but think he probably had eyes on Korea as well, it would be easier to get the experienced warriors out of the country with a mission to assimilate something once the active fighting were over.
 
I have to believe Japan would be much farther in technology, so that by the time of the second world war their not copying every bodies stuff rather furiously and instead are also not quite so far behind industrialization.
 
I have to believe Japan would be much farther in technology, so that by the time of the second world war their not copying every bodies stuff rather furiously and instead are also not quite so far behind industrialization.

There wouldn't be a Second World War. You're talking three hundred years+ of butterflies.
 
There was a darker side to this korean adventure, i heard...

Hideyoshi actually didn't care a lot if they gained some 'colonial territory' or not.

The REAL main goal of the Osaka Tanuki may have been actually to have masses of samurai and (ex?) ronin KILLED away with an excuse, so after uniting Japan, he may have had an easier time and no possible mass revolts of unemployed ronins...
 
Thespitron 6000 I meant more the world war II era. namely in that at the time Japan was behind others in their industrialization process. Mostly cause of how long between their full contact with western nations had taken and how slow they were to accept these new things after the long isolation.
 
First we'd have to establish why it didn't close off (or why it stopped being closed off). And theres several options for that

1. Another Family wins the powergrab at the end of Sengoku Period, or Oda Nobunaga (initial winner) stops the last revolt by the Toyotomi and Tokugawa clans ... Easiest would be to butterfly away Akechi Mitsuhide's coup d'etat, who made an internal powergrab forcing Nobunaga to commit suicide, so that the Oda's keep the power. and since Nobunaga was a Military genius and was as active as you could on the international scene he should be able to keep the seat as the most important man in Japan (traded with the Portugese learning how to make muskets for one). add to that that he developed the Japanese industry and farming nearly just as much as it was doing the Meiji period (at least relatively), and started trade routes with Korea, China, Europe and Southeasten Asia such as Philippines, Siam and Indonesia (and would likely keep expanding those Trading routes)

Given this expansive and trading oriented leadership, and lacking the Tokugawa's Arcane rules (of which a popular history is that he banned the wheel, since it would make transportation to easy ... someone once said that it cost just as much transporting goods 50 miles inland in Japan as it cost to transport the same goods from Europe to Japan) Japan would likely consolidate and be a viable contestent for the regional power allready from the early 1600's, prehaps even capturing whatever weak land there were around, or expanding the traderoutes around India and trading with the Arabs.

2. one of the Tokugawa heirs was a progressive rolling back many of the arcane rules and started to promote trading other than with the Dutch via a small islet in the Nagasaki habour

3. Much earlier revolt of the revolt that would end out in the Meiji Period, which would have to evolve from earlier pressure from the european/American naval powers (America, Russia and prehaps even Netherlands and whoever hanged around in the west pacific at that time) forcing the Shogun to open op trade more, and young dissatisfied samurais importing (illegal!!) superior firearms from 'outside'

Easiest would probably be to butterfly away Oda's death and take it from there
 
Last edited:
Top