WI: Japan avoids radical militarism; a timeline

Probably won't be perfect - Manchukuo, the islands, etc. Still, they could never be as bad as OTL...

Chiang, needing peace as early as he can get it, gave up the islands, but still claims Manchu, not to mention Japanese pseudo-occupation of Shanghai and Hong Kong that goes until at least 1945 (haven't decided yet what ends it).

But yeah not as bad as OTL since instead of uninhabited islands to dispute and sail around/fly over, it's a large fortified border.
 
Part VI: The Six Horsemen of the Apocalypse

The Indochina Wars were a series of conflicts between the powers attempting to gain control over the Indochina region following GWII. The French Indochinese colonial administration went into instability when the French mainland was occupied by German forces. Although the colonial government swore allegiance to the new Vichy government which ruled France, it was still de-facto orphaned as it had no way of directly contacting the metropolitan homeland. British forces from India quickly moved in in 1941, in order to “reestablish order”. Seeing the colonial powers weakened gave a chance for indigenous peoples to move towards independence. The man at the forefront of Vietnamese independence was Ho Chi Minh. By the end of the war, in 1945, Ho Chi Minh petitioned France for allowing Vietnam greater autonomy. He also asked the United States to help back his independence movement. Both refused. Minor skirmishes occurred in the areas most supportive of Ho Chi Minh, where his Viet Minh operated.

1946: Nihonese weapons flow into northern Vietnam through the bay of Tonkin. Negotiations break down and fighting starts between the French colonial forces and the Viet Minh. The First Indochinese War begins.

1947: The Soviet Union begins shipping weaponry to Vietnam by way of the warm water ports of Iran, through the Indian Ocean, Straits of Malacca, and ports in Cambodia. The French launch Operation Lea in northern Vietnam.

1948: The French-controlled South Vietnamese government is cemented in place around Saigon. It is recognized as the true independent Vietnam shortly afterwards. The United States begins their alliance with Thailand.

1949: The Soviets begin sending military advisors and heavier weapons to the Viet Minh.

1950: The Soviet southern supply route is too unpredictable, as it must pass through much of French-controlled Indochina in order to reach the Viet Minh. The Soviets quickly reach the limit of how much supplies they can put through and begin searching for alternate routs. Without assurance of supplies, general Giap does not end the guerrilla phase of the war and waits. Without a significant Soviet threat to the US, Truman does not authorize large amounts of aid to the French and decides to wait for further developments.

1951: The Soviets make deals with Nihon, to use Nihonese shipping to ferry Soviet advisors, weapons, and supplies to the coasts of North Vietnam, which the French cannot control, and thus cannot restrict. The French cannot stop the Nihonese ships, as Nihon has too much military power in the region, especially from their bases on nearby Hainan. With proper supplies, general Giap ends the guerrilla phase of the war to attack French positions. There is a double-blow dealt to the French forces. They are taken by surprise in the sudden assaults on their fortified positions. Shortly afterwards, French general De Lattre is stricken with cancer and must return to France, temporarily paralyzing French leadership.

1952: De Lattre dies of cancer and is replaced by Raoul Salan. The French attempt a counter-attack but take heavy casualties in Giap’s hit-and-run attacks.


1953: French general Navarre takes command and conducts search and destroy missions with relative success, but Laos and North Vietnam are lost to the Viet Minh, and public opinion in France has turned against the war. Lacking funds and supplies, Navarre is unable to enact his strategy of baiting Giap into a pitched battle. Instead, he fortifies the cities and attempts to clear the coastal areas.

1954: Clearing the coastal areas fails, and the Viet Minh mass troops inside South Vietnam, surrounding the fortified cities. With popular support on their side, the entirety of the Vietnamese countryside is now in Viet Minh hands, with only pockets of heavily fortified positions around major cities remaining. Saigon, the symbol and center of French control, is shelled by artillery in a demonstration attack. Having been outmaneuvered, run out of supplies, the French sue for peace.

1955: The Geneva Conference gives much of the Viet Minh controlled territory to North Vietnam. Only Saigon and the Mekong River Delta Region remain with South Vietnam. Alarmed by the gains of communists in the region, with the support of the Soviet Union, no less, America “wakes up”. The Americans realize that were placated by their success in Europe and have not only let Persia and Vietnam fall into the hands of the Soviets, but also allowed anti-colonial independence movements throughout Africa and South Asia to be penetrated by socialist elements. America begins building military bases in Thailand.

1956: Unable to access Vietnam directly, the Americans cannot cancel the re-unification elections in Vietnam. The South refuses to participate, and with support from the U.S. resists the North Vietnamese. The U.S. sends aid to South Vietnam, but is limited by only being able to use British bases from Australia and Singapore.

1957: Viet Minh guerrillas and propagandists begin working in South Vietnam.

1958: North Vietnam declares a war of national reunification with the South. The Second Indochina War begins.

1959: Guerrilla attacks on Saigon. Laos under the control of communists.

1960: Thailand, with American air support, sends troops to Laos to help the pro-westerners “re-establish democracy” before the Declaration of Neutrality of Laos can be made. The North Vietnamese Army begins their strategy of encircling Saigon. The US sends thousands of advisors and combat troops to Vietnam to protect Saigon.

1961: Large scale bombing operations in Vietnam begin.

1962: China agrees to give assistance to South Vietnam.

1963: Having mismanaged the war, a coup deposes Diem. The South becomes completely dependent on the U.S., the Siege of Saigon is slowly coming into place.

1964: The U.S. begins air raids over North Vietnam.

1965: The noose tightens around Saigon and the Siege begins in earnest. The Americans are trapped and unable to access the countryside. The Chinese conduct bombing runs against North Vietnam and Laos. The U.S. deploys the B-52 in Vietnam for the first time to conduct bombings inside South Vietnam.

1966: The Siege of Saigon continues, the bombing campaign in the Mekong Delta intensifies into one of the most ferocious bombing campaigns ever as the Americans attempt pound every square inch of land that could be used as a supply route for the forces sieging Saigon.

In the Cochinchina Crisis, American warships intercept a Nihonese shipment convoy off the coast of Vietnam, knowing that it contained Soviet-made weapons for the Vietnamese. Nihon, a nuclear power, brought up nuclear submarines to the hotspot. Quickly, the situation escalates to the point where Nihon, China, the U.S. and the Soviet Union were on full alert and ready to go to war at the push of a button. It was the closest the world had ever gotten to global nuclear war, one that would have had all six of the worlds great powers at war with each other, as well as the world's three greatest alliance systems. In the end, the U.S. ships do not block Soviet shipments, in exchange, the Soviets withdraw all support from Cuba. The Soviet Union quickly breaks the promise and returns support for Cuba, but at the time it is enough for the U.S. to stand down while saving face. Nuclear war is averted.

1967: The U.S. decides there is no way to win, and hands over the reigns to South Vietnam in the “Vietnamization” phase.

1968: North Vietnamese offensives begin just as U.S. troops are beginning to leave every part of Vietnam they occupy outside of Saigon.

1969: The U.S. signs a cease-fire with North Vietnam.

1970: The U.S. leaves weapons for the South Vietnamese and evacuate soldiers in Saigon towards bases in Thailand.

1971: Saigon falls, the Second Indochinese War ends. The U.S. moves to secure Cambodia.

1972: Vietnamese forces escalate the conflicts in Laos and Cambodia.

1973: The U.S. enters Cambodia in force to prevent a feared communist takeover. The Third Indochinese War begins.

1974: Thailand begins full scale invasion of Cambodia, to help the Americans secure it, and hopefully retrieve lost territory. The Americans, needing Thai aid, ignore their motives. The communists in Cambodia set aside their differences with the Vietnamese communists to fight off the Americans.

1975: Even with Vietnamese aid towards the resistance, Cambodia is pacified. However, in the peace treaty, the Americans do not allow the Thai to annex Cambodian territory, fearing that they would lose public support in the entire region as foreign imperialists facilitating Thai conquest. Feeling betrayed, Thai relations with the U.S. cool. Thai units pull out of Laos and stop helping the pro-westerners. China fills the power-vacuum as the primary supporter of anti-communist elements in Laos, and sends advisors, weapons, and air support.

1976: Having secured a pro-American government in Cambodia, the U.S. prepares to arm a new Cambodian army and allow itself to exit the country, having contained the expansion of communist influence in the region. The Third Indochina War ends.

1977: The U.S. begins exiting Cambodia, leaving behind a pro-American military regime

1978: A coup in Cambodia destabilizes the government. Vietnam intervenes and military units cross Cambodian borders to install and pro-Vietnam government.

1979: The Sino-Viet War occurs. In response to the fall of the pro-western government in Cambodia and the Vietnamese attempt at replacing it with their own puppet, China initiates a “punitive” invasion of Vietnam, which is stopped just short of Hanoi. The Chinese retreat. The Chinese also withdraw from Laos, ending the Laotian Civil War. Vietnam withdraws from Cambodia, leaving it neutral, but keeps forces in Laos.

End of Part VI

Geopolitical map of the major factions and their influence by 1980:
NOCPW-1980.png
 
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Interesting. I'm kind of surprised that Japan didn't get more directly involved in Southern Vietnam - giving support for Buddhist elements in the Army against Catholic Diem, that kind of thing. But the existence of the third power has definitely made the region a lot more volatile, and you've set the scene really well for future conflict flash-points.

I'm guessing since Indonesia was supplied by Japan during the independence struggle, they're allied now?
 
Interesting. I'm kind of surprised that Japan didn't get more directly involved in Southern Vietnam - giving support for Buddhist elements in the Army against Catholic Diem, that kind of thing. But the existence of the third power has definitely made the region a lot more volatile, and you've set the scene really well for future conflict flash-points.

I'm guessing since Indonesia was supplied by Japan during the independence struggle, they're allied now?

Well they don't have much to gain, and would only draw the ire of China for directly intervening. So indirect it is.

Indonesia in not allied with Nihon, but they are influenced by Nihon, and also by the Soviets as a counterweight to American/British influence in the region.

I tried making the colors a sort of spectrum between blue-yellow-red. Light green is between yellow and blue, orange is between yellow and red, etc.
 
So Japan is still an Empire?

A constitutional empire with a stable democracy.

Mostly like modern-day Japan, where the emperor is just a ceremonial figurehead. The main difference is that it is officially still the Greater Empire of Nihon "Dai Nihon Teikoku" rather than the Nihon State "Nihonkoku".

OTL, the weak emperor in the 30's allowed the military to take hold of the state. ATL the weak emperor allows the parliament to take hold of the state, as the military is not already a significant enough politically.
 

Vexacus

Banned
A constitutional empire with a stable democracy.

Mostly like modern-day Japan, where the emperor is just a ceremonial figurehead. The main difference is that it is officially still the Greater Empire of Nihon "Dai Nihon Teikoku" rather than the Nihon State "Nihonkoku".

OTL, the weak emperor in the 30's allowed the military to take hold of the state. ATL the weak emperor allows the parliament to take hold of the state, as the military is not already a significant enough politically.
Sounds interesting. Consider me subscribed
 

Rubicon

Banned
Interesting, problem is you've not solved most of the problems of Japan, merely handwaved them away.
Army and navy minister, who assign them? And if not army and navy, why not?
Is the entire Great Depression handwaved away? If so, how? If not, why wasn't the japanese army radicalised by it?
 
Nice TL, BMN

but i got somme issue

Part IV:
the therm "Süderreich" is nice analog for Österreich for someone use English.
but the therm Österreich is based on old german from year 996.
so correct therm would be in 1945 "Republik Süddeutschland" = republic south Germany

it's a fusion of Baden Wuerttemberg Bavaria Austria
alternative you could use combination name "Land Baden-Bayern-Austria" = state Baden-Bavarian-Austria


Part V
1944: In a shock to the world, the Dutch East Indian colonial military uses their stockpiled reserves of mustard gas and other chemical and biological warfare agents on towns and villages in regions that have been lost to the control of the guerrilla fighters.
so far i know the Netherland had never chemical and biological weapons.

another problem British empire face was india independence and with India troop active in Indonesia, they will rebel against british officer in solidarity toward the Indonesian !
so you got a nice timing why British empire has to left the Netherland alone with Indonesia…
 
Nice TL, BMN

but i got somme issue

Part IV:
the therm "Süderreich" is nice analog for Österreich for someone use English.
but the therm Österreich is based on old german from year 996.
so correct therm would be in 1945 "Republik Süddeutschland" = republic south Germany

it's a fusion of Baden Wuerttemberg Bavaria Austria
alternative you could use combination name "Land Baden-Bayern-Austria" = state Baden-Bavarian-Austria

I purposefully avoided a name that included a reference to deutschland.

After WW1, when Austria-Hungary collapsed, the Austrian Republic tried to become independent under the name of Deutsch-österreich, signifying their desire to reunite with the other German lands. Obviously, this was rejected by all the other great powers and overruled in the peace treaty. Austria was not to be a part of Germany, not even in name.

After WW2, I'm sure the same thing would have happened. Deutsch-süderreich would be forcefully renamed Süderreich by the occupying powers.

Part V

so far i know the Netherland had never chemical and biological weapons.

Most countries that had modern militaries also had some chemical warfare agents, but just never used them. I'm fairly positive they could have used mustard gas. WW2 was the greatest opportunity for countries to use and test their chemical/biological weapons, but both sides deliberately avoided actually using them even when they had them out of fear of retaliation and escalation.

another problem British empire face was india independence and with India troop active in Indonesia, they will rebel against british officer in solidarity toward the Indonesian !
so you got a nice timing why British empire has to left the Netherland alone with Indonesia…

Well the Indians in Malaysia join the rebellion and later become part of Indonesia...
After that I don't really understand the phrasing of your question. :confused:

But thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! :D
 
Interesting, problem is you've not solved most of the problems of Japan, merely handwaved them away.
Army and navy minister, who assign them? And if not army and navy, why not?
Is the entire Great Depression handwaved away? If so, how? If not, why wasn't the japanese army radicalised by it?

Appointed by the Prime Minister, I assume.
The whole "The Army Represents our Nation" didn't really come about due to lack of support from the elite and lack of popular revanchism militarism before the crisis, and therefore even though the Great Depression happens as OTL, the "Army is our savior" sentiment wasn't there to be amplified by the crisis.
 
What about the Korean rebels?

After the Japanese annexation of Korea in 1910, local resistance in Korea culminated in the March 1st Movement in 1919, which was crushed and sent Korean leaders to flee into China.
- the first thing that comes up on Google "Korean Independence Movement".


Not really a problem after 1920.

The end of Part IV hints a bit on what comes, which I will elaborate on in a future update. However, right now I can say there is never a successful rebellion.
 

Vexacus

Banned
- the first thing that comes up on Google "Korean Independence Movement".


Not really a problem after 1920.

The end of Part IV hints a bit on what comes, which I will elaborate on in a future update. However, right now I can say there is never a successful rebellion.

It's good to see that the Empire manages to hold onto Korea:D
 

Rubicon

Banned
Appointed by the Prime Minister, I assume.
That's the problem. They weren't and why are they?

The whole "The Army Represents our Nation" didn't really come about due to lack of support from the elite and lack of popular revanchism militarism before the crisis, and therefore even though the Great Depression happens as OTL, the "Army is our savior" sentiment wasn't there to be amplified by the crisis.
The problem is that the depression hit the japanese peasants hard, and since most the japanese army was recruited from the peasants it radicalised the army. How is this prevented? I'm not talking about officers I'm talking about the regular soliders.
 
That's the problem. They weren't and why are they?


The problem is that the depression hit the japanese peasants hard, and since most the japanese army was recruited from the peasants it radicalised the army. How is this prevented? I'm not talking about officers I'm talking about the regular soliders.

Well that's how it's generally done in a democracy, and they are in the process of heavy democratization reforms at the time.

1. Less war = less peasant recruits
2. Leadership matters. Even if lots of people catch on to enjoying the army, if it is not organized, the sentiment will lose its political power and fade out over time

At least that's how I'm rationalizing it :cool:

And hey, the point of this TL is come up with ways to make them avoid militarism.
 
I purposefully avoided a name that included a reference to deutschland.

After WW1, when Austria-Hungary collapsed, the Austrian Republic tried to become independent under the name of Deutsch-österreich, signifying their desire to reunite with the other German lands. Obviously, this was rejected by all the other great powers and overruled in the peace treaty. Austria was not to be a part of Germany, not even in name.

After WW2, I'm sure the same thing would have happened. Deutsch-süderreich would be forcefully renamed Süderreich by the occupying powers.

You mean the term "Süderreich" was imposts by english speaking on German speaking people?
because its not match german spelling, like i explain before Süderreich would spell Südreich by germans
oh i forgot the term "Reich" will be overruled by Allies also, because hint to The third Reich
So this term make more sense for the germans "Land Baden-Bayern-Austria" = state Baden-Bavarian-Austria

Most countries that had modern militaries also had some chemical warfare agents, but just never used them. I'm fairly positive they could have used mustard gas. WW2 was the greatest opportunity For countries to use and test their chemical/biological weapons, but both sides deliberately avoided actually using them even when they had them out of fear of retaliation and escalation.

i check
The Netherlands NEVER had Chemical or Biological weapon program.
Because before 1940, they belief that there Neutrality is perfect protection for Invasion
as alternative the Netherlands forces could widespread use Flamethrower or Napalm bombardment.

Well the Indians in Malaysia join the rebellion and later become part of Indonesia...
After that I don't really understand the phrasing of your question. :confused:

But thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! :D

I reformulate the sentence.
The British empire help the Netherlands with Troops from India and Australia
With India declare independence in 1947, those indians troops on Indonesia soil, join the Indonesia indian rebels or withdrawal from Indonesia
meaning the British force are outnumber against Indonesia rebels and withdrawal.

i glad to help
 
You mean the term "Süderreich" was imposts by english speaking on German speaking people?
because its not match german spelling, like i explain before Süderreich would spell Südreich by germans
oh i forgot the term "Reich" will be overruled by Allies also, because hint to The third Reich
So this term make more sense for the germans "Land Baden-Bayern-Austria" = state Baden-Bavarian-Austria

Reich is perfectly allowable, because it has nothing to do with Germany, it's what they call Empires/Kingdoms/Countries. France in German is Frankreich "Country of the French". österreich kept its name after the war without a problem, because it meant "eastern kingdom".

i check
The Netherlands NEVER had Chemical or Biological weapon program.
Because before 1940, they belief that there Neutrality is perfect protection for Invasion
as alternative the Netherlands forces could widespread use Flamethrower or Napalm bombardment.

I am pretty sure they must have, at least on territories outside of Europe. Can I see the source? Because this contradicts something I have thought of as hard fact for a while. I'm glad to learn something new, but I want confirmation.

I reformulate the sentence.
The British empire help the Netherlands with Troops from India and Australia
With India declare independence in 1947, those indians troops on Indonesia soil, join the Indonesia indian rebels or withdrawal from Indonesia
meaning the British force are outnumber against Indonesia rebels and withdrawal.

i glad to help
Yes, I forgot to mention the impact of Indian independence, but by 1947, the Indonesian War of Independence is coming to a close anyways, with the British having already decided that they are done, Indian troops or not.
 
I am pretty sure they must have, at least on territories outside of Europe. Can I see the source? Because this contradicts something I have thought of as hard fact for a while. I'm glad to learn something new, but I want confirmation.

I WAS WRONG !
according this source the Netherlands HAD Chemical weapon program

ironically the Royal Netherlands East-Indies Army (Indonesia) were very active on Chemical Weapon research
they install a mustard gas plant at Batujajar, West Java
and produce around 100 tones until 1942.

I shocked about this revelation: The Netherlands and Chemical weapon
 
I WAS WRONG !
according this source the Netherlands HAD Chemical weapon program

ironically the Royal Netherlands East-Indies Army (Indonesia) were very active on Chemical Weapon research
they install a mustard gas plant at Batujajar, West Java
and produce around 100 tones until 1942.

I shocked about this revelation: The Netherlands and Chemical weapon

I knew they had at least mustard gas, but 100 tones by 1942 in East Indies alone?! I literally gawked when I read that.

Well looks like we both learned something new :D
 
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