WI: James Forrestal Suffers His Breakdown during Korea

Delta Force

Banned
James Forrestal was a leading anti-communist and the first Secretary of Defense of the United States. During the 1948 election he thought that President Truman was sure to lose, and met with representatives of the Dewey campaign to talk about staying on after what he was thought would be a landslide victory for him. However, the meeting was leaked to the press, and Dewey of course went on to lose the election to Truman. At the same time Forrestal was facing severe hounding by members of the press. In 1949 he was forced to resign by President Truman, and then suffered a nervous breakdown that led to his hospitalization and his death by falling out of a 16th story window at Walter Reed Naval Medical Center. Forrestal was diagnosed with was a type of adjustment disorder commonly seen in middle aged men who suffer a severe setback and view their entire life as a failure, so it's possible that if the meeting remained secret or Dewey had won he might have continued on as Secretary of Defense.

Historically, a year after Forrestal's resignation the Korean War would break out. In November 1950 Truman transferred nine Mark 4 atomic bombs to the military, and signed but never transmitted an order to use them against DPRK and PRC targets. Civilian control over nuclear weapons wasn't as well established then as it is now, and General MacArthur was pushing for the use of atomic weapons against Korea.

If Forrestal had stayed on for a year or two longer, a paranoid anti-communist with a fragile psychological state would have been second only to the President in control of the United States military - his military - as it suffers defeat after defeat due to poor preparedness that he would have helped carry out. He would be there for the encirclement at Pusan, almost an American Dunkirk, and there for the rush towards the Yalu and the strategic withdrawal of UN forces with millions of PRC soldiers chasing after them. He might also have access to nuclear weapons.

The implications of this are obvious, but I'm wondering what could realistically happen with Forrestal suffering a breakdown during the early Cold War, when the nuclear taboo and civilian control over nuclear weapons hadn't quite been established. Might Forrestal have even been in a position to order or approve a nuclear strike without the President's knowledge?
 
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fred1451

Banned
James Forrestal was a leading anti-communist and the first Secretary of Defense of the United States. During the 1948 election he thought that President Truman was sure to lose, and met with representatives of the Dewey campaign to talk about staying on after what he was thought would be a landslide victory for him. However, the meeting was leaked to the press, and Dewey of course went on to lose the election to Truman. At the same time Forrestal was facing severe hounding by members of the press. In 1949 he was forced to resign by President Truman, and then suffered a nervous breakdown that led to his hospitalization and his death by falling out of a 16th story window at Walter Reed Naval Medical Center. Forrestal was diagnosed with was a type of adjustment disorder commonly seen in middle aged men who suffer a severe setback and view their entire life as a failure, so it's possible that if the meeting remained secret or Dewey had won he might have continued on as Secretary of Defense.

Historically, a year after Forrestal's resignation the Korean War would break out. In November 1950 Truman transferred four Mark 4 atomic bombs to the military, and signed but never transmitted an order to use them against DPRK and PRC targets. Civilian control over nuclear weapons wasn't as well established then as it is now, and General MacArthur was pushing for the use of atomic weapons against Korea.

If Forrestal had stayed on for a year or two longer, a paranoid anti-communist with a fragile psychological state would have been second only to the President in control of the United States military - his military - as it suffers defeat after defeat due to poor preparedness that he would have helped carry out. He would be there for the encirclement at Pusan, almost an American Dunkirk, and there for the rush towards the Yalu and the strategic withdrawal of UN forces with millions of PRC soldiers chasing after them. He might also have access to nuclear weapons.

The implications of this are obvious, but I'm wondering what could realistically happen with Forrestal suffering a breakdown during the early Cold War, when the nuclear taboo and civilian control over nuclear weapons hadn't quite been established. Might Forrestal have even been in a position to order or approve a nuclear strike without the President's knowledge?
It was 9 Mk4s, not 4 Mk4s, and it was the components, I don't think they had the cores with them. Also, didn't Truman say that the decision whether to use nukes or not was always the Presidents?
 

Delta Force

Banned
It was 9 Mk4s, not 4 Mk4s, and it was the components, I don't think they had the cores with them. Also, didn't Truman say that the decision whether to use nukes or not was always the Presidents?

Made a typo there, it was supposed to be nine. As for the decision to use nuclear weapons, it wasn't very clear who had that authority at the time. Wikipedia says that following the transfer of the Mark 4 bombs to Guam there was some talk of giving MacArthur control of them, but ultimately it was decided to give authority to Strategic Air Command.
 
I don't know... Prior to the transfer of the cores to Guam, they had been in the custody of the Atomic Energy Commission, a civilian agency that was born in a bitter fight over whether the military or civilians would control the atom. The AEC would not hand over nuclear weapons to the military without explicit presidential authorization. And Truman isn't going to give that authorization unless he's firmly convinced that he will retain control over the decision of whether or not to use the Bomb. So the only way I can see this happening is if Truman authorizes the transfer as IOTL, believing that he is retaining control over them, but is wrong.
 

Delta Force

Banned
How would they have verified that the President gave the order prior to the 1960s? In a way this scenario is far more dangerous than someone attempting to use other nuclear weapons without authorization, because the United States was ready in a state of war and nuclear weapons hadn't become taboo yet. A nuclear attack order coming down the line from the Secretary of Defense would thus seem far more credible than it would at other points in time, and people might not have reason to question it, especially if the order comes during a major crisis point.
 
It was 9 Mk4s, not 4 Mk4s, and it was the components, I don't think they had the cores with them. Also, didn't Truman say that the decision whether to use nukes or not was always the Presidents?

If memory serves, the military received only the non-nuclear components of the MK4s prior to 1951. And yes, Truman stated on more than one occasion that the decision on whether or not to employ nuclear weapons would require presidential authorization. The Atomic Energy Act of 1946 implied as much, because it vested control of all nuclear material in an executive branch agency (the Atomic Energy Commission) controlled by the president, and which required presidential permission to transfer nuclear materials to other agencies of government (like the Department of Defense).
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Forrestal snaps upon hearing his men were being pushed into the and of the response to this, and orders the bombing of key cities to halt the Chinese advance and 'salt the earth'. Almost immediately he's removed from Command and declared unfit to resume. Alternatively, he shoots himself, General Ripper style.
 
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