WI: J. Edgar Hoover Dies Earlier?

I'm not sure how to actually arrange circumstances in such a way that this would happen, so I might be suggesting something truly implausible. But given Hoover's influence over the way the FBI handled and reacted to the Civil Rights movement among other causes, I was wondering what the impact of his death during the Johnson administration might have been. Let's say he dies sometime after Tolson's 1964 stroke, during the aforementioned administration. What happens to the FBI, and the nation as a whole, as a consequence of Hoover's earlier removal from the political scene?
 
If he dies earlier -- say in 1961, just as ignoring the mafia was becoming an issue, and COINTELPRO started to really get out of control -- then there's a good chance his legacy would be a lot better off...
 
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Provided deloach or Grey takes over not Bill sullivan. He sent the suicide note to dr King, and inflamed hoover's ego. If you read juan williams book Hoover had a tolerence for wilkins, young, and Justice marshall many were shocked by.
 
If he dies earlier -- say in 1961, just as ignoring the mafia was becoming an issue, and COINTELPRO started to really get out of control -- then there's a good chance his legacy would be a lot better off...
Perhaps, but such an earlier death would absolutely butterfly the Kennedy Assassination, which would lead to a different nation on its own, and the thread could easily be derailed by speculation on the survival of the Kennedy administration. Hence why I wanted to date Hoover's death to the Lyndon Johnson administration, so that we could focus on the strict effects of Hoover's removal, without having to deal with a massive massive butterfly that merits its own discussion. In other words, I want to speculate what Hoover's departure would mean if we assume a Johnson Presidency beginning in November 1963.
 
Provided deloach or Grey takes over not Bill sullivan. He sent the suicide note to dr King, and inflamed hoover's ego. If you read juan williams book Hoover had a tolerence for wilkins, young, and Justice marshall many were shocked by.

Well, assuming Hoover dies after Tolson's stroke, so he's effectively removed as a potential long-term successor, it would depend upon who the President wanted to appoint as the successor. I know John Frederick Parker was speculating about a situation in which the director would be appointed by Kennedy, so in that case it would be someone acceptable to that administration, and in all probability, someone handpicked by the Attorney General. If it happens under Johnson, then it all depends on who Lyndon Johnson would have wanted in that sort of role.
 
Wait, what?

Presumably the political changes caused by Hoovers death and the need to find a replacement and get him approved in Congress means JFK never drives through Dealey Plaza in November of '63 and Oswald never gets a chance to shoot JFK like he did. JFK might still be assassinated by Oswald or someone else but under different circumstances than OTL.
 
g

Lyndon got along very well with deke deloach.
Willam colby said he believed had president Kennedy lived it might have been La police chief Parker
 
Presumably the political changes caused by Hoovers death and the need to find a replacement and get him approved in Congress means JFK never drives through Dealey Plaza in November of '63 and Oswald never gets a chance to shoot JFK like he did. JFK might still be assassinated by Oswald or someone else but under different circumstances than OTL.

This essentially. I'm the furthest thing from a butterfly fundamentalist, but Hoover's death would count as a major divergence, and having Kennedy die in Dallas, in November of 1963, is probably a bit too convergent even for my tastes.
 
Lyndon got along very well with deke deloach.
Willam colby said he believed had president Kennedy lived it might have been La police chief Parker

What if anything, would be the respective effect of Director Deloach or Director Parker? Would the FBI's policy in either event change where the Civil Right's Movement was concerned? Or would Hoover era paranoia persist beyond Hoover's tenure? If it changes, what impact might that have on the movement itself, and how might American culture have changed as a result?
 
What if anything, would be the respective effect of Director Deloach or Director Parker? Would the FBI's policy in either event change where the Civil Right's Movement was concerned? Or would Hoover era paranoia persist beyond Hoover's tenure? If it changes, what impact might that have on the movement itself, and how might American culture have changed as a result?

Deke was very much pro civil rights, It was he who convinced Hoover to hold his summit meeting with Dr King, in Dec 1964. Juan williams called him the one man everyone trusted. the orginal dispute came after a remark about FBI closeness with southern cops, and Dr King's friendship with Stanley Levinson a former Communist fundraiser. Parker, it will be a mixed bag. On the one hand he advocated going after the nation of islam, by trying to promote more Malcom X style's splits between Elijah Muhummad and the top brass. On the other he said, denying the Negro his equal place in america, is more dangerous than an H bomb.
 
BigWillyG said:
Presumably the political changes caused by Hoovers death and the need to find a replacement and get him approved in Congress means JFK never drives through Dealey Plaza in November of '63 and Oswald never gets a chance to shoot JFK like he did. JFK might still be assassinated by Oswald or someone else but under different circumstances than OTL.
That presumes J. Edgar's death is proximate with JFK as PotUS. If you push the death back, to the late '50s, you make it moot.

If you push it back into the '30s... Could you see the new Director making the Mafia a major target in the '30s? (J. Edgar denied it even existed, & there's some evidence he was being paid off by Frank Costello.:eek:)

Or, could the new Director ask for even tougher Prohibition?:eek:
SeanPdineen said:
Parker, it will be a mixed bag. On the one hand he advocated going after the nation of islam, by trying to promote more Malcom X style's splits between Elijah Muhummad and the top brass. On the other he said, denying the Negro his equal place in america, is more dangerous than an H bomb.
Parker, as Chief, also reportedly used blackmail.:eek: (Can't recall a source, tho.:eek:) He did carry out a pretty strong effort against the Mafia (tho as I understand it, the L.A. Mob wasn't exactly the Genoveses:rolleyes:).
 
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