Wine trade was one of the majors commercial flux in medieval aeras. If Muslims countries imported wines it could create some stable relations between Christian and Islamic worlds, leading maybe to the acceptence of some members of each in their respective counterparts.
WI Islam wasn`t anti-alcohol?
- Thread starter Riain
- Start date
World harmony through booze...
I know that's an unlikely simplification of your idea, but the idea was just so awesome I had to do so.
World harmony through booze...
I know that's an unlikely simplification of your idea, but the idea was just so awesome I had to do so.
Well, then I feel obliged to add some narco-traffic to this world harmony. Let me rephrase LSCatilina's thought about wine trade:
'If Christian countries imported hashish (from the Muslim East) it could create some stable relations between Christian and Islamic worlds, leading maybe to the acceptence of some members of each in their respective counterparts'.
So we have hippie like paradise on the Earth: Muslims and Christians are united in one happy brotherhood drinking booze and smoking weeds
I don`t know about acceptence, but I know that the importation of Yew bowstaves into England was tied to the wine trade in the middle ages. There was some law that if a merchant imported a certain number of wine barrels he had also import 50 Yew bowstaves. The Yew trees in warmer winegrowing areas has a tighter grain or something. Maybe the wine trade in the mid east could bring niche goods back from eastern Africa and South East Asia.
It's to be remembered that there is 'traditionalist' religion, and the 'fundies' - not always the same.
Traditional Islam as pointed here was actually 'liberal' on some aspects before Fundies came - and ironicaly (a dark irony) made 'progresses' by bringing an 'updated' to 'pureness' religion, 'free' of 'bad interpretations'.
The two sides clash violently nowaday at times. Like in Pakistan and Central Asia or the Malays...
Traditional Islam as pointed here was actually 'liberal' on some aspects before Fundies came - and ironicaly (a dark irony) made 'progresses' by bringing an 'updated' to 'pureness' religion, 'free' of 'bad interpretations'.
The two sides clash violently nowaday at times. Like in Pakistan and Central Asia or the Malays...
This...
But Voldymyr was also a huge pork eater, this is one of the reasons why he didn't consider Judaism. Plus I don't think that's the only reason why he converted to EOC. I'm pretty sure the Kievan Rus stays Eastern Orthodox
Wait, what? Middle Eastern culture has been a 6000 year continuation, not something that emerged later.
Also, if you wanted to get rid of Islam, you could easily do it with a POD in the lifetime of the Prophet. Say that in conversation with Khadijah's Christian uncle (At least I think that was the relation) he sees the messages he is getting as an endorsement of Christianity, leading to him becoming a Christian community leader in Arabia. Its all a moot point anyway, as the OP asked for an Islam that is less anti-Alcoholic, and it isn't too hard to do without butterflying Islam
Huh in this timeline we could have a Saint Mohammed, that would be kind of funny in a weird way.
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Harry Turtledove actually wrote a collection of short stories with that as the premise, it was rather good, essentially Byzantine James Bond type stuff
OS fan
Banned
I am using the definitions of Oswald Spengler: While younger cultures may choose to copy arts, technics, institutions and more from older cultures and create what looks like unbroken continuity of culture, reality is different. In the Middle East, at least five cultures have spread their influence: The Babylonians (it's probably safe to say that this culture and its influence is dead), the Egyptians, the Greeks, the "Magian" culture, and nowadays, of course, the West. Each of these cultures comprised smaller groups, just as the Faustian (western) culture comprises English, French and Germans (and others). More important, however, is this: All these cultures (or culture groups, if you liked) had a time when they flourished, a time when they crystallized (the time of civilization), and a time when only their ruins remained.
Actually, wasn't the whole pork thing yet another reason why he rejected Islam as well?
From what I've read (and this is simplifying things pretty heavily), Vladimir's decision-making on the different religions were, essentially:
-Islam: rejected because it bans alcohol and pork, which were parts of Kievan culture that Vladimir was unwilling to give up
-Judaism: rejected because this was close to the time when the Jews had just lost Jerusalem, which looked like a sign that the religion had no divine or worldly power
-Catholicism: rejected because it acknowledged the supremacy of popes over that of princes and kings
-Orthodoxy: accepted because it had the most beautiful and inspiring churches and ceremonies, and it didn't have any of the cultural or political pitfalls of the other three
All this stuff is folkloric history. Somethign anedcotical to make children and student smile while learning their discipline.
Of course the real reason have nothing to do with a chief unable to not drink booze, but with economical ties more strong with Constantinople than Caliphate.
That's what I meant, that Vladimir would've rejected Islam anyway
That's another thing I meant to say but I wasn't 100% sure about it.
So does "Babylonian" cover Sumerians, Akkadians, Amorites, Aramaeans, and Chaldeans all at once, then?