WI: Isabella of England as Countess of Flanders or Duchess of Brabant

[Kellan Sullivan]

Was reading through another thread, when I got this idea:

Edward III's eldest daughter, Isabella married relatively late in life for the day. However, Barbara Tuchman's book mentions a prior engagement to the count of Flanders, Louis (II) de Male. His wiki supports this, but points out that it was more desire of the guilds who had organized this marriage than Louis himself. So he fled to the French court and married the daughter of the duke of Brabant instead.

But what if Louis doesn't flee (or his attempt is unsuccessful) and the marriage to Isabella goes through. It might be unhappy, she's described in her wiki as indulged/pampered/spoiled, and he might resent it because it's foisted on him. But let's say she doesn't manage to talk her father out of it (as she did with the sieur d'Albret), and she gets packed off to Flanders, he gets forced to the altar, and they have a reasonably fair marriage for the time (neither likes each other but they do their duties (him fathering heirs, her birthing them)).

How does this affect things in England and Flanders? Who does Louis' jilted Brabantian bride marry? How does France react to this?

 

[kasumigenx]

An alliance of Burgundy and England..

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

An alliance of Burgundy and England..

In what respect? Trade alliance? Political alliance? Louis' father was anti-English (or at least ended up on the French side at Crécy), although Louis seems to have refused to bend the knee to Jean II, in which case being the son-in-law to the English king might go a little way in terms of support for such a move.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

OTL, Isabella had only two daughters, but might she actually produce a surviving son here? And what of her OTL husband? A second marriage for her? Marriage to one of her daughters, perhaps (or is he not important enough)?

 

[kasumigenx]

In what respect? Trade alliance? Political alliance? Louis' father was anti-English (or at least ended up on the French side at Crécy), although Louis seems to have refused to bend the knee to Jean II, in which case being the son-in-law to the English king might go a little way in terms of support for such a move.

Trade..

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Trade..

Louis was already pissed because the guilds got uppity and arranged his marriage for him, then presented it to him as a fait accompli. He got out of it by fleeing to Paris. If he is forced to the altar with Isabella, it stands to reason that trade is going to be included in the terms of the marriage contract. And if he decides not to honour those stipulations, he's going to make himself insanely unpopular with the guilds. So I would imagine a trade alliance is sort of a given, even if it favours one side unevenly. But just because Louis has a trade agreement doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be pro-English. An English wife might change that, but I could see it depending on how he feels about her. Hence why posited that they don't hate each other, but it's no love match either, let's say they're both jusst satisfied with what they've got.

 

[The Professor]

Louis was already pissed because the guilds got uppity and arranged his marriage for him, then presented it to him as a fait accompli. He got out of it by fleeing to Paris. If he is forced to the altar with Isabella, it stands to reason that trade is going to be included in the terms of the marriage contract. And if he decides not to honour those stipulations, he's going to make himself insanely unpopular with the guilds. So I would imagine a trade alliance is sort of a given, even if it favours one side unevenly. But just because Louis has a trade agreement doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be pro-English. An English wife might change that, but I could see it depending on how he feels about her. Hence why posited that they don't hate each other, but it's no love match either, let's say they're both jusst satisfied with what they've got.

If anything would he not therefore be more anti English?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

If anything would he not therefore be more anti English?

I would imagine he might be. Unless Isabella can somehow endear herself to her husband in someway. However, I think her personality makes this unlikely. Which means that she'd suffer from what not a few princesses found in that the country of their marriage and the country of their birth are at war/loggerheads. I could almost see her as being the sort that if she births a son and heir, will say "job done" and bugger off back to her father. Especially if there's no real relationship with hubby.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I've been looking at Isabella's marriage records and this is what I can make out:

Between 1344-1346 she was engaged to the son and heir of the duke of Brabant, Henri. However, this engagement was broken by the king of France, and Henri engaged to Princess Jeanne de France (OTL queen of Navarre), whilst his younger brother, Godefroi was engaged to Jeanne de Bourbon (OTL queen of France, wife of Charles V). Then between 1346-1347 Isabella was betrothed to the count of Flanders.

So either way, chances are good that until another option came up, Isabella was slated for a marriage into the Low Countries. So what if Isabella had married into Brabant rather than Flanders? She'd be closer in age to giving Henri a child than an infant French princess (Jeanne was four when contracted to marry Henri), so how might this affect the future of the Low Countries?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

After reading a bio of Isabella's, I came across something interesting about Louis II's refusal to marry her. He refused, partially on the grounds mentioned above (that it was arranged by the burghers), but also, because his dad was killed at Crécy under the hooves of the English cavalry. (And apparently during his stay at the French court he conceived an ardent attachment for the Brabant girl he later wed). So, if his dad survived Crécy, would that remove one of the pillars of Louis' arguments against the marriage enough that we could see this match go through?