WI: Isabella Fitz Robert, Countess of Gloucester isn't divorced from King John?

The Problem with King John is that he killed off all the legitimate Plantagenets descended from his brothers and the other male members of legitimate branches of Plantagenets aside from him in his reign, Thomas Du Perche a minor line of Plantagenet died as well.

Thomas Du Perche and Eleanor of Brittany were both the remaining Plantagenets after John killed Arthur, both died in captivity.
This would be the Thomas of Perche who died in 1217?
 
This would be the Thomas of Perche who died in 1217?
Both Eleanor of Brittany and Thomas of Perche died in captivity but were captured during King John's reign but died during the reign of Henry III, compared to Henry IV who killed none of the other Plantagenets.
 
Oh, the reason why they weren't allowed to have sexual relations OTL? I think it was just due to their relatively close relationship compared to other noble matches at the time. They were second cousins.

The marriage was declared invalid by reason of consanguinity by the Archbishop of Canterbury, who also laid the interdict on their lands.

Maybe the Pope didn't feel comfortable with it?

The Pope granted a dispensation which overruled the Archbishop, but as mentioned, still forbade them to have sex. Very weird.

WI John had never succeeded as King? Say if Richard was not killed at Chaluz, and Arthur succeeds instead. Does John just stay married to Isabella? Are they both OK with this sexless and therefor childless "marriage"?

Were there other similar cases?
 
The marriage was declared invalid by reason of consanguinity by the Archbishop of Canterbury, who also laid the interdict on their lands.



The Pope granted a dispensation which overruled the Archbishop, but as mentioned, still forbade them to have sex. Very weird.

WI John had never succeeded as King? Say if Richard was not killed at Chaluz, and Arthur succeeds instead. Does John just stay married to Isabella? Are they both OK with this sexless and therefor childless "marriage"?

Were there other similar cases?
Perhaps we can have John married to Constance of Sicily or Isabella of Jerusalem instead.
 
Both Eleanor of Brittany and Thomas of Perche died in captivity but were captured during King John's reign but died during the reign of Henry III, compared to Henry IV who killed none of the other Plantagenets.

Really? Was Thomas du Perche kept in captivity? There was a Thomas comte du Perche of the house of Chataeudun, the same ancestral house as the counts of Anjou, who died at Lincoln Castle. he was commanding the besieging forces at the time. He died in battle there.
 
Really? Was Thomas du Perche kept in captivity? There was a Thomas comte du Perche of the house of Chataeudun, the same ancestral house as the counts of Anjou, who died at Lincoln Castle. he was commanding the besieging forces at the time. He died in battle there.
I just mixed that up.

Thomas Du Perche and Eleanor of Brittany were the only other legitimate line Plantagenets the problem is that all of the other Legitimate Plantagenets were killed or imprisoned by John and Henry III because they sided with Philippe Auguste, in the case of Du Perche is that he died in action.
 
I just mixed that up.

Thomas Du Perche and Eleanor of Brittany were the only other legitimate line Plantagenets the problem is that all of the other Legitimate Plantagenets were killed or imprisoned by John and Henry III because they sided with Philippe Auguste, in the case of Du Perche is that he died in action.
I`m sorry to keep contradicting you, but Thomas du Perche and the Anjevins were both descendents of the House of Chateaudun, there was a third line that of the Vicounts of Chateaudun which survived until 1249. King John of course died in 1216.
There was also the Angevin Line of the Kings of Jerusalem, descended from Falk.
They did go extinct in the male line in 1186, but I don't think King John was at fault.
In the female side of the line we get Isabella, Maria, Isabella II then Conrad IV and Conradin. While it is questionable that they counted as Plantagenets, They were closer relations to the Plantagenets than was Thomad du Perche. Fulk being the father of the first Plantagenet.
edit the Angevins went extinct in the male line in 1185.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Châteaudun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Jerusalem_family_tree
 
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I`m sorry to keep contradicting you, but Thomas du Perche and the Anjevins were both descendents of the House of Chateaudun, there was a third line that of the Vicounts of Chateaudun which survived until 1249. King John of course died in 1216.
There was also the Angevin Line of the Kings of Jerusalem, descended from Falk.
They did go extinct in the male line in 1186, but I don't think King John was at fault.
In the female side of the line we get Isabella, Maria, Isabella II then Conrad IV and Conradin. While it is questionable that they counted as Plantagenets, They were closer relations to the Plantagenets than was Thomad du Perche. Fulk being the father of the first Plantagenet.
edit the Angevins went extinct in the male line in 1185.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Châteaudun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Jerusalem_family_tree

I am sorry for the statement but what I am trying to say is that I find John too much violent compared to Henry IV.
 
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