WI: Ironclads vs RPGs in the ACW

I'm thinking about writing a TL in which weapons a few decades ahead of there time from OTL are used in the American Civil War. One of the weapons I have in mind is the rocket propelled grenade. I already know that simple but inaccurate rockets had been used in european warfare before the ACW and hand held grenades had also been used during that war so I think that the idea for using RPGS at that time is plausible. I've also been told that designs such as the Panzerfaust from WWII were simple enough to have been made during the ACW so I believe I will go with a design based on that.

With this set up could anyone then tell me what effect the use of the armour peircing weapons could have on battles involving ironclads?
xgerman_antitank19_panzerfaust_klein.jpg

Ironclads.jpg
 
It might be possible to create something similar in shape and function to a modern day RPG. However I don't think that it would have armor piercing abilities, much less be shoulder fired. You could possibly get Rocket Artillery similar to world war II systems however it would be inaccurate. Possibility in naval warfare it might be able to slip into the gun ports of Ironclads
 
Handheld weapons like that were painfully inaccurate. They'll be even more so in this case. Then for armor penetrating capability what you want is a shaped charge.

As for use, you'll probably have to take a row boat, right up to the ship to actually hit it. Or you could stand on the deck of one of the other ships i suppose.

Handheld anti armored weapons probably would not do much besides make small holes and cause the ship to shake, although they might work out en masse.
 
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You're also going to have problems with the explosive. At the time of the ACW all that's widely available is black powder which doesn't produce enough force to create the shockwave that the Panzerfaust's warhead requires. You're going to have to majorly accelerate the development of High Explosives in order to get a working HEAT round by 1861.

Now as for how it will affect naval battles between ironclads...the main problem with shoulder mounted rockets is that their size is less than ideal for engaging bigger targets. That being said it's a unique idea. Civil War Ironclads usually had only a comparatively thin layer of iron covering more substantial wooden beams. If a HEAT round were to hit this it would have no problems cutting through it and would probably cause a fire inside the Ironclad. Thus though the hole might be small, the fire could be far more dangerous.

As for application, I could see it being used a la Congreve rockets by wooden naval vessels as an "equalizer" with ironclads.
 
It might be possible to create something similar in shape and function to a modern day RPG. However I don't think that it would have armor piercing abilities, much less be shoulder fired. You could possibly get Rocket Artillery similar to world war II systems however it would be inaccurate. Possibility in naval warfare it might be able to slip into the gun ports of Ironclads

Rocket artillery already existed. Indian armies used it in the 18th c and the British developed it further
 
By the way, the Panzerfaust is recoilless gun, not a rocket

actually, at the time rocketry was at the very end of its usefulness.

It had reached a peak during the napoleonic wars where its superior manoeuvrability and relatively high explosive payload made it a viable alternative to artillery. The british used it on both on land and at sea. Over the course of the 19th century artillery became more advanced: it could be transported easier, fired faster and do more damage so there was no need of rockets. However, most armies maintained some rockets, particularly in their mountaineer corps. For instance the Austrians alpine troops used rockets rather than artillery up til the first world war.


In fact by the ACW the rocket would be seen as dated, old fashioned weapon of little use in modern warfare. It was only in 20th century with better chemical and engineering that rockets became practical weapons
 
The trouble is that small handheld weaopns just could not pack the punch needed to seriously damage a ship. You are talking about getting through 10-13 cm of iron and then about the same of wood.

The modern M1A2 Abrams tank has 12 cm, so could your RPG take out a modern tank?
 
Problem with shoulder mounted rockets is mainly that their size is less than ideal for engaging bigger targets.
 
As states above, neat idea but you lack the high speed explosives required.
Nitroglycerine was available in the 1860s, but of course carrying that around has inherent problems of its own...
(Dynamite, as a stabilised version, was patented in 1867.)
 
I believe the Chinese had bamboo-constructed rocket launchers for a long time. If that came to the United States along with dedication to growing bamboo to cheaply and quickly construct such launchers, you could see some scary/interesting set-ups in military context.

I imagine something that's nudged forward on a floating shingle that looks like bamboo scaffolding with a few dozen fuses could wreak an interesting amount of havoc. It might not pierce through metal armor, but it could perhaps disrupt or distract from focused operation, maybe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing

http://history.cultural-china.com/en/60H6314H12137.html

http://www.grandhistorian.com/chinesesiegewarfare/siegeweapons-handheldrocketlaunchers.html

sketch-mingyiwofeng.jpg
 
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By the way, the Panzerfaust is recoilless gun, not a rocket
Thanks, I new that it wasn't a true RPG but I couldn't remember what to call it when I wrote my OP. Now after reading the Wikipedia article on the Panzerfaust I've thought a little on what it would take to build one in the 1860s. First off its propellent was simply black powder which is plentyful at that time and its parts where made of metal and should be easy enought to make at that time. The hardest part its explosive which was a 50:50 mix of TNT and tri-hexogen (RDX). According to Wiki TNT was first prepared in 1863 by German chemist Julius Wilbrand which was during the ACW but its use as an explosive was not found until years later. A simple POD could be created to make its creation and/or use as an explosive be discovered sooner which could lead to its use as a weapon before the wars end. The harder part is the tri-hexogen which was not discovered until 1898. So I either have to create a POD that also makes this explosive discovered sooner or find another explosive that had already been discovered by the ACW.
 
Handheld weapons like that were painfully inaccurate. They'll be even more so in this case. Then for armor penetrating capability what you want is a shaped charge.

As for use, you'll probably have to take a row boat, right up to the ship to actually hit it. Or you could stand on the deck of one of the other ships i suppose.

Handheld anti armored weapons probably would not do much besides make small holes and cause the ship to shake, although they might work out en masse.
Isn't this what spar torpedoes were invented for?
 

Hoist40

Banned
One problem is that they achieve their armor piercing ability using shaped charges and these only produce a small hole in the armor and a narrow jet of hot metal. Against a tank because of the small volume inside a tank this can cause major damage. However ships are much larger so a few small holes in the armor and a narrow jet of hot metal would probably miss most important parts.

This is why shaped charges are not used against ships, they only cause damage in a very narrow area.
 
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